Ok,
So, as I mentioned in my TU Press Corps post (congratulations if you managed to read it in it's entirety without falling asleep), The Universal is generally accepted as having a rather large learning curve for new players.
The way I see it, there are a few critical flaws which make this the case:
> There is little written advice players can acces (covered in my other post).
> Newbies are all too often targeted by higher powered players for the fun of it. A couple of failed water runs due to being blown up can really dishearten new players. I experienced this myself when I first started.
> Space play is always at a disadvantage to world play. Newbies usually have to make an ill-informed choice between going for the infimp drive, or going for a cargo ship. If they go for the infimp drive, this widens the opportunity for world play as they can acces any they wish, but space becomes impossible to play because they have no cash left for a cargo ship and no way of increasing funds. If they choose the cargo drive, they have to spend a long time saving up for the infimp, which players often don't want to do.
These are my suggestions to alleviate some of these problems:
> Re-write the guides (covered in my other post).
> Newbie Protection! Seems like a no brainer to me. So many games offer newbies a period of protected time in which they can't be attacked so they can establish themselves. A period as short as a week would allow new players to explore the game without fear of attack from over-zealous Galaxy Cruiser captains...
> Make the starting ship the Cargo Ship, give the Shuttle a small cargo bay, or make infimp drive standard like the finite drive and star drive. This would remove the difficult choice for new players, and would make space far more playable for the average player.
Just my two quids worth...
DK
Alleviating the Stress of Newbies
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dramaking444
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flametard
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i agree with alot drama king said here.
newb protection:
you could make all cirrus minor no fighting zone.
choice between infimp and cargo:
its a dodgy situation because one has to consider that making the game too easy at first could discourage more avid gamers. but in this situation, perhaps just a little more starter cash is required so players have more choices when they begin.
instruction for newbies:
pretty much newbs will rely on people to tell them how to move foreward, access the space station and trade report. i think these 3 things should be in maybe a scripted thing for beginners, which walks them through control of the ship when they first login to the galaxy, then how to access the trade report and space stations. the simpler the better. maybe a warning about space pirates in outer systems or something.
newb protection:
you could make all cirrus minor no fighting zone.
choice between infimp and cargo:
its a dodgy situation because one has to consider that making the game too easy at first could discourage more avid gamers. but in this situation, perhaps just a little more starter cash is required so players have more choices when they begin.
instruction for newbies:
pretty much newbs will rely on people to tell them how to move foreward, access the space station and trade report. i think these 3 things should be in maybe a scripted thing for beginners, which walks them through control of the ship when they first login to the galaxy, then how to access the trade report and space stations. the simpler the better. maybe a warning about space pirates in outer systems or something.
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morbydvisns
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well hithere stim.
I propose either a x hr gametime in space safe time, or a bit more complicated.. say, if the player has less than a certain amount of gal credits, and no bounty or something like that. If a player is new, going to have both true... if a player gets reduced having nothing, they at least have a chance to get a foothold back, and not have to worry about idiots staying on their ass. Im sure people would find ways to abuse that, however, but there can be checks to the system, that will nullify their safe time if they act a fool.
I propose either a x hr gametime in space safe time, or a bit more complicated.. say, if the player has less than a certain amount of gal credits, and no bounty or something like that. If a player is new, going to have both true... if a player gets reduced having nothing, they at least have a chance to get a foothold back, and not have to worry about idiots staying on their ass. Im sure people would find ways to abuse that, however, but there can be checks to the system, that will nullify their safe time if they act a fool.
Well, the best thing to do to help newbies is to make a newbie friendly faction. Don't join factions like iNK, because those newbs kill other newbs. We should kill all iNK players. All they are is a wannabe NR anyways. Cyborg does all his "Greetings" that he ripped off stimutacs. Yes Stim, Cyborg roleplays as another guy who roleplays. With a newb friendly faction, all we would have to do is take turns watching zion's system. If a new player joins, we can teach them to play. If one of the loser factions try attacking, we'll have gal cruisers and can go help.
Edit: iNK only sends cargotransports to kill the newbies... i do not endorse such behavior... they are not the only faction that kills newbies. The ones that use gal freighters and gal cruisers are other factions, but i will not mention any names, in order to not hurt people's feelings.
As far as infimp/space choice. WE can let players know that they do not need an infimp right from the start.if they insist on buying an infimp, they'll have to reset themselves in order to be able to play space. For now, infimps are more of a space tool than a world finding tool. Just about all the worlds that are online and actually playable are already on the finite drive. If we give newbies the right information, we can really help them.
As far as the protection time, i think it would be exploited unless the rules were very well thought through. A week of protection time is way too long. Being an experienced space trader, it only takes about 8 hours to get an alien freighter(keep in mind i know where it's at and the trade routes pretty well). A faction could exploit this in many ways. The first obvious way is just by recruiting newbies and taking them to the alien locations, get the gal cruiser(wont take as long as you'd think since every faction already has loads of credits stocked up, can easily get bounties to give to the newbs, and show them the way). Another way that this could be exploited is if a faction member keeps reseting himself every week so he gets the newbie protection... even if the time was linked to the actual account, some space players make new accounts to change their name all the time anyways. He would get the gal cruiser, then not be attackable. Then he could attack whoever and they can't fire back unless he has a bounty for an entire week? Also, what about players who choose to play planets for their first week? They lose their chance to have a newb friendly experience because they wasted their time. The best solution to this is to go back to how the game was before... zion and zoric systems are considered newb friendly zones, protected by the federation, so no fighting takes place there. The only thing about this is it would affect all players and faction members would just sit in zion-space and never fight if they are in lead as far as power. There may be other flaws to this way too. I'm sure there are, otherwise Mit wouldn't have changed it in the first place.
Well, I think I've been typing too long, so bye.
Edit: iNK only sends cargotransports to kill the newbies... i do not endorse such behavior... they are not the only faction that kills newbies. The ones that use gal freighters and gal cruisers are other factions, but i will not mention any names, in order to not hurt people's feelings.
As far as infimp/space choice. WE can let players know that they do not need an infimp right from the start.if they insist on buying an infimp, they'll have to reset themselves in order to be able to play space. For now, infimps are more of a space tool than a world finding tool. Just about all the worlds that are online and actually playable are already on the finite drive. If we give newbies the right information, we can really help them.
As far as the protection time, i think it would be exploited unless the rules were very well thought through. A week of protection time is way too long. Being an experienced space trader, it only takes about 8 hours to get an alien freighter(keep in mind i know where it's at and the trade routes pretty well). A faction could exploit this in many ways. The first obvious way is just by recruiting newbies and taking them to the alien locations, get the gal cruiser(wont take as long as you'd think since every faction already has loads of credits stocked up, can easily get bounties to give to the newbs, and show them the way). Another way that this could be exploited is if a faction member keeps reseting himself every week so he gets the newbie protection... even if the time was linked to the actual account, some space players make new accounts to change their name all the time anyways. He would get the gal cruiser, then not be attackable. Then he could attack whoever and they can't fire back unless he has a bounty for an entire week? Also, what about players who choose to play planets for their first week? They lose their chance to have a newb friendly experience because they wasted their time. The best solution to this is to go back to how the game was before... zion and zoric systems are considered newb friendly zones, protected by the federation, so no fighting takes place there. The only thing about this is it would affect all players and faction members would just sit in zion-space and never fight if they are in lead as far as power. There may be other flaws to this way too. I'm sure there are, otherwise Mit wouldn't have changed it in the first place.
Well, I think I've been typing too long, so bye.
Last edited by wes773 on Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wow,you love me/us that much? And for the record,we dont kill newbs,if anything we help them out. I use to give newbs credits to keep them from leaving for gods sake -.-,The only newb killing we do is when I recruit a newb,and i try to teach him how to combat/pirate so i put him up against other newbs.We'r not the bad guys,we'r the guys who kill the bad guys..and the good guys while we'r at it.wes773 wrote:Well, the best thing to do to help newbies is to make a newbie friendly faction. Don't join factions like iNK, because those newbs kill other newbs. We should kill all iNK players. All they are is a wannabe NR anyways. Cyborg does all his "Greetings" that he ripped off stimutacs. Yes Stim, Cyborg roleplays as another guy who roleplays.
And dont try and make this productive thread into a flaming one,its pointless.
P.S. And if i recall correctly Blaze helped out DK alot when he came back.
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dramaking444
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Wes, I agree with ElderGod, don't turn this into a flaming post.
On the more productive points, I understandthat a lot of TUers are quite happy to let the onus fall on the current playerbase training up the newbies.This is all fine and well, and can be infinitely more effective than reading a guide because of the personal touches, but there are flaws. Firstly, the two major systems are deserted for, I'd guess, 75% of the 24hrs in a day. This means a lot of newbies come through to a game which they see is completely empty.
Case Study: I got one guy come through yesterday. He landed in Biplane World because, as it says, it's supposed to be a tutorial world. I landed shortly after and watched him bump into a whole load of walls because he couldnt even understand how to move! I took him to space and told him the options, and all he would do is comment about how empty the place was. Now, I know we can't change that for the moment, but the problem with players training other players is that the chances of experianced players bumping into even a small percentage of the newbies that come through is very small. I might add they he asked me numerously about where they kept the guides....
On protection time, I think you're right, failsafes would have to be implemented. In a lot of games that use this system, (I'm thinking of Ogame as an example, don't know if you guys know it), those uner newbie protection can't attack anyone of higher power. They can, however, attack other newbies, so if they had time to quickly gain a more powerful ship, they could still exploit this. Perhaps just making interplanetary shuttles/cargo's protected would provide sufficient protection AND prevent factions/higher power players exploiting the system.
On factions, how about having a newbie faction that all new members automatically join?
DK
On the more productive points, I understandthat a lot of TUers are quite happy to let the onus fall on the current playerbase training up the newbies.This is all fine and well, and can be infinitely more effective than reading a guide because of the personal touches, but there are flaws. Firstly, the two major systems are deserted for, I'd guess, 75% of the 24hrs in a day. This means a lot of newbies come through to a game which they see is completely empty.
Case Study: I got one guy come through yesterday. He landed in Biplane World because, as it says, it's supposed to be a tutorial world. I landed shortly after and watched him bump into a whole load of walls because he couldnt even understand how to move! I took him to space and told him the options, and all he would do is comment about how empty the place was. Now, I know we can't change that for the moment, but the problem with players training other players is that the chances of experianced players bumping into even a small percentage of the newbies that come through is very small. I might add they he asked me numerously about where they kept the guides....
On protection time, I think you're right, failsafes would have to be implemented. In a lot of games that use this system, (I'm thinking of Ogame as an example, don't know if you guys know it), those uner newbie protection can't attack anyone of higher power. They can, however, attack other newbies, so if they had time to quickly gain a more powerful ship, they could still exploit this. Perhaps just making interplanetary shuttles/cargo's protected would provide sufficient protection AND prevent factions/higher power players exploiting the system.
On factions, how about having a newbie faction that all new members automatically join?
DK
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flametard
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again, since players cant always be available to teach newbs, i think a scripted "lesson" on the operations of the ship and trade report/space station/system map would be cool for like the first login or something.
im for making cirrus a no weap zone cause its more realistic that a galaxy would have laws, rather than a week of imperviousness when players begin.
also, i think planets themselves, in the default setting, should be a simple tutorial on how to build a planet, instead of just a blank slate, maybe an imbedded script which talks planet owners through the main commands, bdats, textures, where to look in their c-drive. nothing really detailed, just a quick summary of how to go about building a world. like instead of the default "welcome to the island" you could have "welcome to the island, heres a list of important topics to read in the world owner manual when building your first planet: heightmap, textures, b-dat editor, server window, c>program files>the universal>data, gamescript mts, serverscript mts, books, etc... and dont forget to check the forums for tips on planet building" yadda yadda
the planet owner could then look in his script file and learn how the tutorial scipt works and if he or she is smart enough, they'll realize they can change the words to make it say funny messages, and go from there.
what im saying is we need to automate some improvments for the learning curve, and make it so a MONKEY (or someone who's never looked through their program files) could build a planet.
im for making cirrus a no weap zone cause its more realistic that a galaxy would have laws, rather than a week of imperviousness when players begin.
also, i think planets themselves, in the default setting, should be a simple tutorial on how to build a planet, instead of just a blank slate, maybe an imbedded script which talks planet owners through the main commands, bdats, textures, where to look in their c-drive. nothing really detailed, just a quick summary of how to go about building a world. like instead of the default "welcome to the island" you could have "welcome to the island, heres a list of important topics to read in the world owner manual when building your first planet: heightmap, textures, b-dat editor, server window, c>program files>the universal>data, gamescript mts, serverscript mts, books, etc... and dont forget to check the forums for tips on planet building" yadda yadda
the planet owner could then look in his script file and learn how the tutorial scipt works and if he or she is smart enough, they'll realize they can change the words to make it say funny messages, and go from there.
what im saying is we need to automate some improvments for the learning curve, and make it so a MONKEY (or someone who's never looked through their program files) could build a planet.
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flametard
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i actually think thats an idea that a bunch of us could be working on now. I know that MIT is preparing a tutorial world, but he's got alot on his hands right now, so we could at least try to tweak a planet into a simple tutorial on planet building.
something which not only covers a broad range of subjects, but also employs many types of scripts, im talking an example of all the coolest scripts we've come up with, everything from text in the chat, to effects, to book images, to osd's, to camera panning!!
then, beginner planet builders will be able to simply copy those scripts and make more interesting and diverse worlds.
once we got a good planet we could submit it to MIT as a replacement to the default planet if he likes the idea. but this is something that bong, zar, wes, myself, and all the best and current planet makers will have to contribute on, cause we're all busy.
something which not only covers a broad range of subjects, but also employs many types of scripts, im talking an example of all the coolest scripts we've come up with, everything from text in the chat, to effects, to book images, to osd's, to camera panning!!
then, beginner planet builders will be able to simply copy those scripts and make more interesting and diverse worlds.
once we got a good planet we could submit it to MIT as a replacement to the default planet if he likes the idea. but this is something that bong, zar, wes, myself, and all the best and current planet makers will have to contribute on, cause we're all busy.
I didn't mean to make this into a flaming post... i was simply telling the truth. if you have a problem, find me in-game and we'll deal with this like men, son.
Now, about the tutorial world, we're not going to have anything like that unless we really jump on it. I don't have time to make it myself, but I would like to contribute if maybe dramaking or somebody else will start making one, but i doubt that will happen. People here don't seem to want to mess with making worlds at all. As far as a guide on making a world, just about everything is covered in the forums. If you want, I'll gather what I can find and fit it into one big document and post it on the forums. While making a game teach you to make a game would be good, we really are limited in script right now.
One problem we would have is that OSDs can't display images. Another is that while a world would be fun, it would mostly just be reading and doing, and a text document would be much easier to navigate than any way we could get the information to players on a world. For a planet to work like this, it would take a lot of thought and a lot of planning.
Here's an idea. If players are going to bother landing on a world, we should make them play, then learn, then play some more. Players are on a quest to collect the "world creation tools" so they must talk to NPCs, do missions, search the wilderness, and build items. Each tool would come with a description of how to use it and where to get what you need(off theuniversal.net or location in the server client).
Another thing to keep in mind is if somebody did do this, then we would have to make a sample world that touches on a bit of each part of world design(modelling/texturing/bdat editing/ scripting/cutscenes/etc) and then make the tutorial world tell players how to make the sample world, step by step, as they unlock the knowledge of how to do stuff. We would also have to cover concepts of game design, such as making challeges and balancing gameplay.
Something to think about. IT would be an interesting project.
Now, about the tutorial world, we're not going to have anything like that unless we really jump on it. I don't have time to make it myself, but I would like to contribute if maybe dramaking or somebody else will start making one, but i doubt that will happen. People here don't seem to want to mess with making worlds at all. As far as a guide on making a world, just about everything is covered in the forums. If you want, I'll gather what I can find and fit it into one big document and post it on the forums. While making a game teach you to make a game would be good, we really are limited in script right now.
One problem we would have is that OSDs can't display images. Another is that while a world would be fun, it would mostly just be reading and doing, and a text document would be much easier to navigate than any way we could get the information to players on a world. For a planet to work like this, it would take a lot of thought and a lot of planning.
Here's an idea. If players are going to bother landing on a world, we should make them play, then learn, then play some more. Players are on a quest to collect the "world creation tools" so they must talk to NPCs, do missions, search the wilderness, and build items. Each tool would come with a description of how to use it and where to get what you need(off theuniversal.net or location in the server client).
Another thing to keep in mind is if somebody did do this, then we would have to make a sample world that touches on a bit of each part of world design(modelling/texturing/bdat editing/ scripting/cutscenes/etc) and then make the tutorial world tell players how to make the sample world, step by step, as they unlock the knowledge of how to do stuff. We would also have to cover concepts of game design, such as making challeges and balancing gameplay.
Something to think about. IT would be an interesting project.