Lyceum project

[MasterNiCron]

we are building a lycem in avalon and can use all the help and wisdom u can offer

[Keyalha]

we are building a lycem in avalon and can use all the help and wisdom u can offer

We need to gather as much wis as we can there is more then enough wis around to get it done. As much as i liked to see the Lyceum in Babylon ( just beeing honest here ) i simply saw it a waste of already spent wis to compete in that specific case.

edit: last time i checked lyceum was at 55 wis so more than half already done

edit2: As for my leave earlier a) i had to leave anyway as i was totally over my time but this did not let me rest.

The reason why i am sorta fed is we are supposed to test how the game works and if it works, but how should we if we dont know the game mechanics per se, and when we ask all we get is a you will see, its counter productive and counter intuitive.

The other thing is i in some aspects simply disagree with how the stuff is set up out of two reasons. First reason is i simply dont see how those things are supposed to work later on when there arent 20 people in a chapter ( they are sorta subesequently played trhough for a newbie later on if i got mit right ).

per example on that is end of chapter 2 fighting might be hard when you are the only one around if there are no npc´s you can slay for the same effect.

and b i simply dislike game concepts where beeing cooperative is netting you a disatvantage which seems to me in case of the lyceum.

I read the text before i spent my wis and i do not regret putting all my wis in, i as said in chat simpyl thought that this was a leftover text cause i assumed that mit is not penaltizing beein cooperative.

Its one thing to enforce some sort of pot stirring but it stops beeing fun when its only done to entertain and hinds proper testing of stuff which i simply assume is the case for now.

[Omni]

I added my 10 wisdom into it.

For the future generations!

We're now at 80 wisdom

[Keyalha]

I added my 10 wisdom into it.

For the future generations!

We're now at 80 wisdom

It is thanked

We are now 19 Wisdom away from finishing the Lyceum bricks are complete thanks to all those EU Time nightshifters when i logged in we where like 30ish bricks short now we are done.

[Kirby]

'Tis done.
Metallurgy - Keyalha's working on it (1 wisdom)
Masonry - puggy's working on it (1 wisdom)
Religion - ??? (2 wisdom)
Mathematics - ??? (2 wisdom)
Alphabet ??? - (3 wisdom)

[MasterNiCron]

New skill 'Religion' will be learnt in 22 hours and 56 minutes (real-time)
all hale Sky Fire

[wes773]

The game is based on the idea of us not knowing the game's mechanics, because that IS the game. We are testing whether or not people are going to be able to figure out the way things work. If you can't see that, sorry to say, but you've missed the entire concept of the game.

[Mit]

Well, I don't think thats quite the *entire* concept. Its a big part of it aye, but there is a balance between trying out what works & what doesnt and trying to maintain a reasonably solid and playable experience. It will sometimes be more one than the other.

[Keyalha]

Is there any chance we are at the content brickwall again mit? ( means there is no more content we currently can acess ).

With alls skills besides philosophy ( which is as far as i heard not unlockable yet ) done by someone it seems we are through what you have thrown at us for now.

As of now we assume books either come by time or need said philosophy skill to be created.

Btw your economy model might have a culprit since when the two gold mine owners build a villa there will be 20 total gold drawn out of the economy, then we have nearly zero gold available right now.

Even if not i doubt the current amount of gold in the game even with the the newly generated gold cant sustain the whole pop. So if people cant pan for gold we see people dying of hunger and thirst if facility owners keep the gold they get as spending can only be re injected into economy by well owners by now. So currently only engineers and gold miners will get gold and everyone else end up dying sooner or later.

As per se we currently have a gold backed money ( which is literally gold ) the growth of economy is limited to the amount of gold coming into it. Assuming that each person needs to pay for water, wis and even eating without having acess to the source it might end up having the same problems that real life economys also have, which is that more and more money come towards less and less people.

[Mit]

it might end up having the same problems that real life economys also have, which is that more and more money come towards less and less people.

It may.. which will be 'interesting'

Depending on how extreme things get, there may be a need for 'government intervention' (that was usually the solution back in 2005) but ideally we'll be able to put enough components in place to allow a genuine 'free' economy in which the needs and demands of various parties balance each other out.

How are the gold miners and engineers doing for food atm?

[Keyalha]

it might end up having the same problems that real life economys also have, which is that more and more money come towards less and less people.

It may.. which will be 'interesting'

Depending on how extreme things get, there may be a need for 'government intervention' (that was usually the solution back in 2005) but ideally we'll be able to put enough components in place to allow a genuine 'free' economy in which the needs and demands of various parties balance each other out.

How are the gold miners and engineers doing for food atm?

well most people live of bushes so food farmers are sorta screwed those few who have gold hardly spend it and even with the need of food and water which i do accomodate for we have roughly a spending of one gold per day which is way to low to get a economy past barter which most people stick to.

A good bunch of people is frustrated cause they die of thirst if no intervention happens.
With the lack of lyceum books there is not enough incentive to spend gold for the miners.

Even with books there wouldnt be as there is nothing to spend the wis on besides philosophy around which might or might not be a useful addition depending on if it needs an extra building or not.

Another thing is the two major religions we have as of now sort of act like guilds where they provide what they have to "members" so the economy simply does not happen in there people help each other out without gold. So you might have simply underestimated the peoples will to help each other out.

Btw MIT eco is broke owners of drinking wells cant get the gold out of the wells so its simply broke at the moment.

[XmAkInA]

Just a thought, but perhaps berries and nuts could have the same effect as poisoned water? That way, there's a bigger (but not lethal) incentive to buy bread.

[Keyalha]

Just a thought, but perhaps berries and nuts could have the same effect as poisoned water? That way, there's a bigger (but not lethal) incentive to buy bread.

Thats definatly a good idea in my book. Still it would not inject enough gold into its economy. Whenever a currency been started in real life history they have practically flooded the economy with a base level of currency, which simply did not happen here so we have a culprit in it since the very first minute as of now its slowly tickling in but there is simply not enough things to spend gold on besides your basic needs.

We need a way broader arrangment of goods for it to be vital. With a limit on the amount of skills and a limit on the amount of buildings there simply is not enough to spend stuff on, cause once you have your buildings and have your skills you basical spending is down to keep yourself allive ( food and drinking ).

So if you cant use your gold to produce something different with it its simply sitting there stockpiling. Without no incencitve to invest gold it wont happen.

[XmAkInA]

We need a way broader arrangment of goods for it to be vital.

This. Gold became a standard because haggling was too much hassle. We're not even close to that yet.

[MasterNiCron]

first stop thinking of gold as money its only anuther item atm. u dont get gold back from temples well or libarys so its like useing any other item. with that in mind if u got the skill for gold make as much as u can and give it to newbs as thay come on. thay can use that gold to get wisdom at libary so thay can get the skill needed to mine gold as well. that shuld start a very stady flow of gold into econamy

[Keyalha]

first stop thinking of gold as money its only anuther item atm. u dont get gold back from temples well or libarys so its like useing any other item. with that in mind if u got the skill for gold make as much as u can and give it to newbs as thay come on. thay can use that gold to get wisdom at libary so thay can get the skill needed to mine gold as well. that shuld start a very stady flow of gold into econamy

Well you cant get wis out of libaries cause in the current state libaries dont have books.
At this state they are a pile of usless marble.

[MasterNiCron]

as i rember just a day ago u sead the same about the gold mine just give it time. takes a bit to wright a book

[Keyalha]

as i rember just a day ago u sead the same about the gold mine just give it time. takes a bit to wright a book

I doubt i said that but, besides taking over a function that was already there ( getting food and water ) they still serve no function. And the purpose of gold was to introduce a basic level of economy which it simply does not yet do. Thats partially by the design of it and partially because code is not working.

And even if they generate books with them taking 24+ hours per libary it still is not a major spending incentive, counting on peoples altruism might not be the best plan to get an economy going, its simply counter intutitve to how economys work.

[Usagi]

you must accept that there will be times when features don't work as you'd expect, or don't work at all. It's entirely possible that you'll lose in-game items and status, have people kill your character in an unfair way, or simply become frustrated as a result of this beta status. If you can't deal with that, don't play the game.

just get on with the game and stop moaning.

[Mit]

As said, theres a balance there.. theres a balance too between 'moaning' and discussion of problems and ideas, so feel free to continue discussing

Code: Select all

Thats partially by the design of it and partially because code is not working.

I dispute that.. its not by design and its not due to code not working.. its entirely due to code that hasn't been written yet

i think the thing to take from that beta statement is that yes, sometimes things aren't set up right, but thats not necessarily due to some fundamental problem or oversight, just that we're still working through stuff. To paraphrase the site, features are actually working pretty much as i'd expect (which is good). There isnt enough of em yet - thats partly due to limited development time, partly deliberate as adding everything at once would make it very difficult to work out where any issues lie, and partly to provide a progression over the course of a few weeks that provides players with some regular new stuff to discover when they return.

The over-reliance on berries is something i've already picked up on and have been slowly adjusting the generation rate for those items over the last few days. Similarly, as was noticed yesterday, free wheat has now completely gone, and that may happen to berries too once theres enough of an economy in place to make sure theres a reasonable chance everyone can get fed. (Particularly for newbs).

We've barely scraped the surface on the items/buildings & skills that will make up the rest of the progression for this chapter, and most will have an implication with regard to the distribution of wealth from the rich to the poor - The re-introduction of employment will make a significant change, as will shops and, ultimately, banks.
I don't know exactly how that'll turn out (anyone who has studied economics knows that predicting the behaviour of a genuinely open market is impossible), but im sure it'll be 'fun'. :].