I can understand what you mean. I am a little frustrated myself. I can assure you that it isn't just random. There is a method to Mits madness. Each item we have invent had a reason and you could tell after you seen the ingredients.Keyalha wrote:@ Jem we are not only limited by Kiln and Smelter in what we do, we are currently at most limited by people simply not tasking at all due to the fact that they said f... it this is just too random.
In Its current stage the Resarch System is just pure brute forcing and thats not a good thing imho.
I cant agree with you on that point fully. The thing is if the madness had some built in clues you see before starting tasks it would make sense as it narrows down the number of possible combinations, which it currently doesnt. Simple guesswork is from the scientific point nothing else than brute forcing it. As you only guess that x is going to work there is no way that y wont work can be concluded its just assumptions. Even the messages themselvs arent a full clue if or if not a thing works even with brute forcing when messages would be the case we would be way scedule.Jemrada wrote:I can understand what you mean. I am a little frustrated myself. I can assure you that it isn't just random. There is a method to Mits madness. Each item we have invent had a reason and you could tell after you seen the ingredients.Keyalha wrote:@ Jem we are not only limited by Kiln and Smelter in what we do, we are currently at most limited by people simply not tasking at all due to the fact that they said f... it this is just too random.
In Its current stage the Resarch System is just pure brute forcing and thats not a good thing imho.
We just need to work together and analyze it again. We don't need to get frustrated now that it is getting harder.
Like Mit said, will a leader rise to lead? If everybody is trying to lead and not work together. We will not survive that way ether.
. Some of that is deliberate, some of it is limitations or bugs in the server, client and/or script and its particularly slow at the moment coz i need to be able to monitor progress and have time to resolve those issues as they arise. . (In chat, you mentioned other games which had balanced things a lot better before players got their hands on it.. we're reasonably unique here in that the players are also the first-stage alpha-testers :] ). I'm hoping the knowledge that you're blazing a unique trail counters some of the pain and suffering of the alpha-ness. . Oh hum. First of thanks for your reply mit.Mit wrote:"In Its current stage the Resarch System is just pure brute forcing and thats not a good thing imho."
Agreed.
There is a reason we added the "[alpha]" to the page and i've been emphasising that this is just a one-off. Part of what you're doing here is testing the infrastructure and structure, at a much slower speed than normal, and with the added 'fun' of not knowing where you're going. That won't be the case ever again, coz its stupid and random. :]
You were chatting t'other day about the game balance being way off - it certainly is
For those interested and weren't there when i've chatted about it before : once we've completed this run, the current chapter (properly balanced) will become the starting point for new players in a new universe, and it will be much faster and less complex. (The obscure mud->clay sequence is gone replaced by clay that is gained with a shovel. Fire will be a two item task (and the firepit will be usable too).. etc. etc.. basically all the things people found were wrong with this version will be improved on).
Eventually Chapter 2 will form the first few hours of gameplay in the 'beta' version of this new layout for the game. (Chapter 3 becomes the next few hours, chapter 4.. etc.. until eventually we have a game that new players can join and experience a robust progression & depth that will have taken us all a long while to develop and test).
Apologies if that all makes you feel like you're being 'used' .. but thats exactly what you are being
Now another part of my general methodology behind all this was that i'd see how things went (knowing full well that some bits will be a bit random, unbalanced, obscure, painful and terribly slow) and prodding occasionally with clues (perhaps in the form of a shaman visit) when i thought it necessary to help people to move on or when things got a little too painful.
Recently various people asked me not to give any more clues. (Which i thought a bit strange... :] )... I did anyway the other day, but for some reason no-one quite understood that
There is logic to the next steps (which aren't complicated), reasonable logic that i know is discernable to others, because its been repeated and stated a number of times now. I should also point out that you're no more than a couple of tasks away from the end of the current tech-tree.... and then (after a bit more bug-fixing and testing) the proper game can start. :]
The thing why i tell you this is as i said in chat yesterday already to help you improve it. I like the game and i plan to stay a lot longer here because i genuinly like the idea of the evolving from nothing to space race gameplay.Agreeszaroba wrote:yes, we must keep in mind that its only the first run threw.
any future runs of this chapter will be completed in a fraction of the time unless mit changes the recipes. All the successful recipes will be known and are recorded on the forum, in the wiki, in taskfreak, and in people's notes. same will likely be true for chap 3 etc.
despite that, its not the tasking in general i have an issue with, its the lack of knowledge as to what to do. i don't know who asked for there to be no clues, but i say we roast them over the campfire`and eat them.
I would like to tell you directly where you're going, but its so close now and I think the final bit will be a nicer surprise when someone works it out for themselves.its not the tasking in general i have an issue with, its the lack of knowledge as to what to do
I believe I tried stating this in a few short chat sentences, but apparently that wasn't enough to create some reasoning in the lad. Oh well, I tried.Keyalha wrote:First of thanks for your reply mit.Mit wrote:"In Its current stage the Resarch System is just pure brute forcing and thats not a good thing imho."
Agreed.
There is a reason we added the "[alpha]" to the page and i've been emphasising that this is just a one-off. Part of what you're doing here is testing the infrastructure and structure, at a much slower speed than normal, and with the added 'fun' of not knowing where you're going. That won't be the case ever again, coz its stupid and random. :]
You were chatting t'other day about the game balance being way off - it certainly is
For those interested and weren't there when i've chatted about it before : once we've completed this run, the current chapter (properly balanced) will become the starting point for new players in a new universe, and it will be much faster and less complex. (The obscure mud->clay sequence is gone replaced by clay that is gained with a shovel. Fire will be a two item task (and the firepit will be usable too).. etc. etc.. basically all the things people found were wrong with this version will be improved on).
Eventually Chapter 2 will form the first few hours of gameplay in the 'beta' version of this new layout for the game. (Chapter 3 becomes the next few hours, chapter 4.. etc.. until eventually we have a game that new players can join and experience a robust progression & depth that will have taken us all a long while to develop and test).
Apologies if that all makes you feel like you're being 'used' .. but thats exactly what you are being
Now another part of my general methodology behind all this was that i'd see how things went (knowing full well that some bits will be a bit random, unbalanced, obscure, painful and terribly slow) and prodding occasionally with clues (perhaps in the form of a shaman visit) when i thought it necessary to help people to move on or when things got a little too painful.
Recently various people asked me not to give any more clues. (Which i thought a bit strange... :] )... I did anyway the other day, but for some reason no-one quite understood that
There is logic to the next steps (which aren't complicated), reasonable logic that i know is discernable to others, because its been repeated and stated a number of times now. I should also point out that you're no more than a couple of tasks away from the end of the current tech-tree.... and then (after a bit more bug-fixing and testing) the proper game can start. :]
Im aware that this game is in early stage of devlopment belive me
I cant say often enough im happy to help as long as you provide us with an insight like you did with your post, it lets us know that you care about the facts, and you are trying to solve things.
The Shaman thing was a good start, imho something a little more robust would be a good thing.
I really thank you for giving us a little insight on the topic it cleared up a lot of confusion, my only thing i would ask into your direction is to keep up to communicate what you are aware of like you startet it with this post, so people know hey he knows he screwed and he improved is because of our feedback it gives the people the feeling the things they found to be like they are is valid and usfuel for improving the game.
If my critisim was too harsh at any point i apology it was never meant to flame or bash you in any way. I try to keep it as scientific and unpersonal as possible, and it was meant as constructive critisim.
