Capital Ship Development

[Ironhand]

Hali!

I thinks this thread is the bets place to for my question.

I have downloaded the atm converter, and I have seen more ships, that aren't icluded in the game. My question is, are these spaceships totally not accessible in or hidden in a remote system.

The other thing is, I gladly make ship models for the game or more spacestation models, because I think the would be more interesting with more ships. And like in x-wing alliance, different ships don't have to have different statistics. But I don't know wich program would be used, I use AutoCAD its uses dwg extension.

An exaple I made:


And I think its okay that there are different laser in the game, but wouldn't it be cool that the x fighter could fire four laser beams, of course it would do the same damage. And for exaple other ships could do three, or four too, depending on the shape. This would not alter the ship capabilities, but would look very awesome.

Also I know this is off topic, but I think I ask this here. I think every game endeavor to model reality, so do the game developers, including this game.

I noticed that the space controls are analogous to an atmospheric plane, not a space craft. I explane.

As you know you could only change the angle, up and down. But you cannot change the direction, the only way to turn is to rotate the craft counterclockwise or clockwise. Thats why flying with the craft and control is more difficult than it shuold be. Think about spaceshuttles they don't rotate to turn to right or left, they use their manoeuvring engine to turn to left, right, up or down. Thats why people should control their craft easier, pushing the laft button would turn the craft to the left, as with theright button. But also there would be a rotating option too.

[fhko]

I have no idea what that thing you rendered is supposed to be, but knowing someone in TU actaully has an interest in modeling and the skills/software to make something so elegant makes me want to cry.

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The short answer...

Mit controls everything space related. No real changes to it can be made without his intervention.

The long answer...

This is the current list of all ships you can buy/obtain in the game. I'm aware there are more ship models than are utilized in-game currently, but there is little that can be done about it without going through mit.

Ships and pretty much everything space related can only be altered by messing with the default files that come with the game. This gets a bit risky as the differences in the files may have unintended side-effects and the staff generally disapproves of such recklessness.

I and other players in the past have replaced default models and textures in the game with our own homemade creations (for instance I had a tie-fighter model in place of the alien megascout model for awhile). However, this has the limitation that only you can see the substitution and can therefore lead to P2P funkiness (as I alluded to above).

I agree it would be nice if the appearance of ships could be altered easily without changing any of the stats. In the current state of the game, I do not believe this is possible.

There are some alternative options of course.

1) Ask mit to incorporate a spaceship model you've made into an upcoming patch. This is of course rather unlikely to happen (although definitely not impossible) unless mit is feeling generous (aka drunk).

2) Ships and all other models can be used freely for any purpose on worlds. So if you make a really nice ship model intended for space and post it on the forums hoping to have it up in space you may in fact soon see it popping up in various players' worlds. And don't think we don't appreciate every good model that the community can get its hands on.

3) Make your own world and set it up so that it behave similarly to space and put to ship model there. Definitely time consuming, but a definite way to get your model in the game.

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Making models for TU...

The model converter for TU can only make .atm (TU's model extension) type files from .x and .3ds model types. So if all your AutoCAD can export is .dwg (you might check to see if it can do other file types) you will need another bit of software to convert .dwg into .x or .3ds.

Unfortunately in my quick ten minute search of the internet I couldn't find any freeware that could do it directly, but if you can get it into .dxf (another type of AutoCAD file from the looks of it) Lithunwrap can get it into either file extension easily. From here it opens with the TU converter and can easily be saved as a .atm.

Of course some point the model would have to have been UVmapped and Textured in order to correctly work in-game.

If you do decide to move forward with modeling, I wish you all the luck in the world.

[Mishka]

He can still email Mit and talk about it, don't forget that.

Those models are excellent.

Btw, Wings 3D, even though it's not a very potent modeling tool, it can import and export from various file formats. There are other converters around the net that offer free trials, but it's for a limited time.

But I recommend 3D Exploration. It's a very good converter, it offers a free trial, don't know if it's time limited, but it's still working for me after 3 months of use.

3D Exploration can transform .dwg to 3ds. And MANY other file formats.

[Ironhand]

Thanks the answer.

My model was a tower with a metallic texture (in a little Mordor style), bit strange that not brick or stone, but this texture emphasizes the shapes.

3ds extension perfect I can export dwg files into it, the main problem is now to find the AutoCAD CD.

I did not wanted a system in the wich enables the players to change the model and texture of the ship, just to look different. I would like to improve the but I am not good at programming, modelling is just fine, but don't know how to make a corrct texture file to a model.

So I would like to see lots of different ship in the game, so not few ship with changeable skin. But for newcommers the game would offer a choice between starter planes. Like they could choose the original Intrplanetary or two others, with minimal difference in performance: 1 missile 2 ECM, 2 missile 1 ECM, 7 ion but 1 ECM, etc. Or if this is impossible, they star with interplanetary, and can buy two types of planes for free or for say 10 cr, and the interplanetary too.

Just to offer a little diversity, not just lots of Interplanetary shuttles, because the newcommer players are in majority. And also the game could offer other freighters, cruisers etc, because if a player have a lot of money it is sure he\she will buy a Galcruiser and nothing else (maybe a alien megascout). I say let's offer more ships with close stats to eachother, different players favor different technics.

So the extant ships could be the fathers of new ship classes, the three strongest ships already stay close to eachother in performance.

For example here in the Universal, a player with a Galcruiser beat up all other ship, exept the aliens with experianced pilots. They are the fastest and can hold the most missiles ECMs. Okay they deserved it because of lots of work. But why are the strongest ships the fastest? I mean there should be a fast ship with a weak hull, vice versa. To offer different fighting methods. I don't want a game where noobs beat up old players. Its just a little boring that every player try for a the capital ships.

I mean if you have more missiles than your enemy's ECMs you win 90% of the battles.

Oh, and about the space controls I am really interested about Mit's opinion.

[Mishka]

I edited my post.

You should really talk to Mit. Email him.

[Fooli]

Oh, and about the space controls I am really interested about Mit's opinion.

They're like that for a reason. It's called Elite.

If you want to do boring FPS style circle strafing in space, you should probably play something else :) Yes, the controls can be a bit challenging, but it's just an old-school style we liked, and lots of people have got very good at it. Realism has nothing to do with computer games, shuttle or no shuttle!

f

[Ironhand]

Oh, and about the space controls I am really interested about Mit's opinion.

They're like that for a reason. It's called Elite.

If you want to do boring FPS style circle strafing in space, you should probably play something else Yes, the controls can be a bit challenging, but it's just an old-school style we liked, and lots of people have got very good at it. Realism has nothing to do with computer games, shuttle or no shuttle!

f

Maybe I get on with it. After all, playing X-wing Alliance again, after TU were strange too. And now with xpadder I could use a joystick suitably. I like this game because it offer real people, not bots this is the main reason, and advancing is a good thing too.

But what about new ships?

(my father played Elite, and when he saw TU (when I was in space), He said its like Elite, but he almost know nothing about the game)

And what is "f" you always write?

[Fooli]

Everything fhko said is correct.

Yes, we should have more ships in game. That comes down to 2 things:

1) modelling and texturing more ships, hopefully of a higher quality than the ones we have

This is reasonably straightforward, but also a bit time-consuming. And I sort of stopped doing it because I couldn't get good results. Partly my limitations as a modeller/texturer. Partly because the engine doesn't support things that make it easy to make nice-looking ships. Yet. Also partly because of reason #2

2) all space ships are hard-coded into the game (as opposed to the dynamic models used on worlds). This is for various very sensible gameplay reasons. The problem is, that means whenever we get a new model, the code needs writing to include it in the game - camera positions, thruster positions, lasers, ship stats etc etc. As mit hasn't been devoting any time to that stuff in the last 2 years or so, I haven't bothered doing any new ships. Because nothing I make will be included (I've had a couple of "nearly done" ships for 2 years or so now).

As fhko said, there's nothing to stop you making ships and just using them on worlds for the time being. And if you make something truly spectacular, well maybe that will prompt mit to do something with them... there are no guarantees, though.

f

(f stands for Fooli. Duh :] )

[Ironhand]

Hali!

So lately I made a model, but I have to state, that it is in only in a raw form, no textures, no weapons, no engines, and no interior, yet.

Maybe a bit shock to those who only like angular ships, but I hope most of you will like it.

The white line is 100 m correctly.

Above

Front

Top

Side

Rear

Here it is
Bottom

[fhko]

Is there a way you can decrease the light intensity of your renderer, I can hardly tell what the contours of the top are like.

From the front it kind of looks like a glaring face...I like it!

[Ironhand]

And I made this AutoCAD 2007, it got some very new and sipmple put spectacular tricks. In render you can even even adjust the light by set how many fotons reach the model (no joke average foton number is 10000 ).

[Mishka]

I'd like ships to get bigger, bigger and bigger too, with implementation of the turret system (see the feature request section). Along with a release of more small ships.

[Ironhand]

Well I had the idea, itroducing capital ships, and interiors, two or more player team up for one big ship, and fight with others, in order to move to a location in ship (turret, engines, cockpit), you have to use the ships interior, for example to repair things, or bigger freighters could host a tea afternoon for friends . And there could be battles where the goal is to kill off the capital ship. Where I know nobody would fly a capital ship for long alone, but it could be a good opportunity for team work.

And I think ship interrior could be really posible in the game, because the only place where you coul see the space is the cockpit, the other areas are much easier to code.

[Tirion]

Here's one more idea: huge spaceships - plants. They can be used as space stations aswell. The ships must be equipped with heavy missile launchers and can produce different stuff from asteroid fragments, missiles for example. One faction can possess one or more such ship. However such a ship must be supplied every day with asteroid fragments, water, rare metals, because it can be captured (or blown up) by another faction if having no ammo (missiles).

[Mishka]

Well I had the idea, itroducing capital ships, and interiors, two or more player team up for one big ship, and fight with others, in order to move to a location in ship (turret, engines, cockpit), you have to use the ships interior, for example to repair things, or bigger freighters could host a tea afternoon for friends . And there could be battles where the goal is to kill off the capital ship. Where I know nobody would fly a capital ship for long alone, but it could be a good opportunity for team work.

And I think ship interrior could be really posible in the game, because the only place where you coul see the space is the cockpit, the other areas are much easier to code.

Would work with NPC ships, I've requested them too.

1. NPC Trader frieght ships.

2. NPC aggresive.

3. NPC random explorer ships.

We could also set missions or quests with the implementation of the NPCs. Faction capital ships. And the same implementation would bring new ships, the turret system. All in one update.


You get the picture?

I also like the idea of ship interiors in huge ships (capital ships). Mit also promised a faction territory system in the next update (take over system).

[Mishka]

You know, this all isn't hard to make and implement. Just needs a little dedication from the developer.

Mit should think about accepting some help, there are people around here such as you Iron, and daz who are willing to help, and have the abilities to do so.

[fhko]

I might try making a large space craft (aka capital ship) with a moderately detailed interior if that would be something everyone wants. Could be outfitted with turrets and such.

If I do try for it, It will probably be one of the biggest (probably the biggest) model I've made thus far. I'm hoping that since space is a largely model and graphics free portion of the game, this will not adversely affect the frame rate too badly.

Also if someone can draw up a concept ship with a simple internal floor plan and such, it would be much easier for me to copy it into a 3D environment than it would be to come up with something from scratch. (My poorly designed spaceships of the past are testament to this.)

I would like to avoid using a popularized ship design (like from star trek, etc.) despite the temptation, since this may end up being a very important part of the game (used in advertisements and coveted by all space pilots) so I don't want anyone down the line saying it's just a cheep knock off of something else. I do this not only for my own integrity, but for the integrity of originality for the game as a whole.

[Ironhand]

Well thanks for the compliments so far. I just wanted to ask is my spaceship fit to the Universal or it is extraneous?

And I think on smaller ships if the full inerior isn't possible, a small 3d cockpit should would make it cooler, and a window frame too.

You could feel more like in ship, not in just space.

[fhko]

I know from some work I've previously done that the cockpit view of space is totally absent of the ship model itself. Even parts that should logically fall in front of the screen (like a glass cockpit) are not visible. Sorry to disappoint.

As far as the model itself is concerned, I think it's a good idea to have definite areas of the model that are supposed to represent a propulsion system and others that are weapon-esque. Some of this can be done via texture.

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edit: Also any aspect of a Capital Ship will need to be designed with the number of players it is allowed to hold in mind. If there are going to be 20 people aboard during a large fire fight, it wouldn't make sense to have just 2 turrets for defense (the opposite is of course true).

What we want is to think of how popular a ship such as this might be and how many people can we strategically have inside before it just becomes an intergalactic sardine can. In a typical battle, would it be good to have 5 people manning a Capital Ship while 10 other players fly around in more traditional craft to defend the soft underbelly and go on the offensive. Or will most people want to see the action from inside the CS as they blaze away with their turret guns and have only a few minor ships to maneuver where the larger ship can't.

Speaking of maneuverability, I'm guessing that we don't want a ship that has ten turret guns at the ready being able to dart around like an x-wing, but how slow do we want it? On the order of a current freighter type ship or something a whole order of magnitude slower. Such that the turrets become essential since the main guns can be brought around fast enough to blast anything smaller.

It is all this details work that makes game development such a slow process.

[fhko]

Just so you realize how legitimately interested I am in modeling this thing, I've already begun work on a rough outline of the cockpit exterior.

That being said. This is in no way a simple project that I'm going to do all by myself and magically throw together by sacrificing my free time without any tangible support from the rest of the TU community.

I need actual ideas on how this thing is going to behave in the whole of TU space. Like: will players actually physically need to land their craft in a docking bay to come aboard or will it be more like the current space station scheme or if we do decide to have battles inside of a ship, what would determine who is the winner? capturing the cockpit, destroying vital systems or killing the other players?

I need to know all this stuff before I can really complete this model.