Universal Forum Archive

Hali!

I think we can answer some questions, just logically. Well these ship will be unique I think, so if it is possible, it would be good if players could'nt fly just trough the ship, instead crashing into the ship would damage them. But at the docking bay they still crash into the capital ship, just they don't suffer damage there, and eventually they dock.

Because of the low speed of red alert, only a few enemy pilots could approach the dockingbay at high speed (He is heading to the dockingbay, shoot him down!). And targetting the a small object in space could be difficult, so if everything work right, we can assume that the offenders could only capture the ship with a organized attack. Well know from experiance that people like changeable methods more that starting the same thing all over again, so there should be an opportunity to destroy the ship. Although this would require a bit time and effort (just like the capturing), because these ships are quite large. Well if it is possible they could withstand a few gamma bursts (to prevent that skilled freelancers destroy the craft).

Also player could capture the ship by destroying all players in it, after that they could reverse its weapons to the defender, and winning by killing off everybody or by bringing back the enemy's ship to their base (ship, spacestation well this could be th question).

Also like in every ship there are vital systems too, so they could destroy the ship from the inside too.Destroying engines cripple the movement, destroying defence system cripple the shields, destroying weapon system the turrets, but altogeather the ship could make manoeuvres till the end. The final phase is deastroying the cockpit. But the personell is able to repair them.

As you can see saboteurs could ease the job of the outside attackers, by disabling the shield, turrets or movement. So the game never become boring, and the attackers could change tactics.

But why are there three method to capture or destroy the ship? Because of the prestige and awards (or battle merits), capturing the ship and bringing it back to the base or holding it until the death of other players would offer the highest prestige, merit (because this is the most difficult), next the outer destruction (this will need a bit team work too), and the last is the inner destruction (because I think this is the easiest).

For example merits could be awarded to players with most kills, most part in capturing, destroying the ship, ideas: Merit of bravery defending the ship from the inside, merit of survival surviving until a certain time, merit of valour most useful player, etc.

Also the ship needs certain location for the battle, cockpit, 5 turrets, or more, engine room (for movement), computer room (for shield), barracks (for weapons) or destroying all the turrets from the inside (this is waiting for a decision).

I thinks both teams need the same interior (because of equality), but not the same exterior. Like a long corridor leding from the docks to the cockpit, with side corridors leading to rooms and turrets.

Well I know this would be a difficult job, but i will try to help whatever i can (if my freetime is enough for it). I hope you will find some help in my ideas.

well, interesting ideas
i have one question tho:
i didnt understand quite well, what are the reasons of posessing a capital ship? A group of players posessing a capital ship must have some benefits from it. What are this benefits?

Well I have mentioned the merit system, battling with a capital ship is an offical battle between two clans, and may also include observers.

You can gain awards in this battle, but in other you cannot. You could parade on the forums with your shiny medal, asserting you are the best of the best.

Also you could earn some galactic prestige.

If your clan wins a capital ship battle, maybe you could count a little progress on the faction table.

Well this would be another opportunity, inspire new players to join into factions. And any clan could organise one, more often than the fight night. Announcing large battles with capital ships, walkable interiors, on the main page would lure some new players. These features will rise the game high above others, because even in SW Battlefornt 2 capital ships cannot move, they just tools of the battle, similar to buildings. But here, it would be a new dinamic warfare. The game already offers unique options, but this will add a large set of new opportunities. And its free? With a little advertising lots of player will join, in my opinion. And the rewarding system urges them stay, not to lose what they accheived, what they lived through.

Imagine a TU video, deep space. The camera floating from the sun to a big dark shadow, eventually the sunbeams luster its surface. The capital ship of BG! Few seconds later you see little bees swarming around it. Galaxy cruisers and alien ships! Then bigness suddenly fire five enermous laser beams, from its turrets! NR has arrived! A large battle evolve from the cold space, and the capital ships are in the center. Each are able to decimate entire fleets, but they too strong for each other. The end of the fray is near, the two monstrosities are slowly dying. Who shall be victorious? Remains to be seen! Then these words appear: The Universal, you decide!

i hope that capital ship will give some unique possibilities or even items. It could produce some military stuff or give some extra defence for ships. If it will hang on permanently in space players will have some reasons to be online supplying or defending it (or capturing it).
Otherwise in the case it will not be permanently in space, the usage of such ships will be very casual and rare imho. Its not easy to organise a fightnight and it will not be easier to organise even one battle involving a capital ship.

Tirion wrote:Its not easy to organise a fightnight and it will not be easier to organise even one battle involving a capital ship.

I don't want to interrupt the flow of modelling enthusiasm going on here, but:

- it'll be impossible to organise even one battle involving a capital ship until such ships are implemented in the code

- I can't say definitively, but I can say with a large amount of confidence, that the code needed won't be written soon, if at all

- even if they are, all the stuff you're talking about relating to gameplay and model design and so on will likely be completely different to anything you've come up with

- you should really be having this discussion in a new thread :]

Don't wanna spoil the party, but just be aware that you're talking about/modelling this stuff almost certainly just for your own enjoyment. Very unlikely anything like this will make it into the game in the foreseeable future, if at all.
f

Party Pooper!

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But seriously, I know this is a long shot. I was mainly hoping that building this thing for such a specific reason would motivate mit to give it some attention. Let's call it a "build it and he will come" thing.

And honestly, don't you think this stuff sounds like fun, fooli?


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discussion continued here

I bet you've spoiled it(party) already
I am talking about all this stuff not only for my own enjoyment. I hope to propose some ideas that will be required in the future.
Fooli could you be so kind to make a new topic and to move all posts relating capital ship into it.

Ironhand wrote:Hali!

An exaple I made:

honestly....i think that looks like it would make a great building on a world
possibly as a fort or outpost on a warring world.
could set it up to shoot from the top as a turret as well.

Thanks Zar

Well I think is important, that (if ever become reality) a capital ship, can be purchased as a normal, or a clan can posses one when they have a certain powerpoints.

I think the most difficult is the ship interior and the turret system, all other things are already in the game, just on planets. For instance the ship could like a small planet.

And I think everybody would like it, and players could easily organise a battle. The each of the clans assign the pilot, he or she drops into the cockpit of the ship, much like when you buy one, after that player who wish to board, just crash into the docking bay. The two clans discuss the time and the place on the forums and just go there, no system guardian is needed, just like ordinary battles, with a little extra, and the merits could be awarded after the battle.

Here is an interior example:

Even after Fooli's knock back to reality, somethings can still be done:

We can still have capital ships, along with turrets. Capital ships would have various turrets along it's structure, players could enter such turrets, or the commander can set it on auto (auto turrets, hmm this can already be done on worlds) The ship would also have a main laser gun, and missile bay.

For this, we would need:

1. The Space turret code to be done once and for all ( how long has it been pending now?)

2. The turret code in general to be fixed.

3. Some conding to enable players to enter the turrets in space.

See this thread:

http://theuniversal.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7893


To set the turrets on auto, well there's not much to be done on this part, we can already set auto-turrets on worlds, so atleast that part is a bit done, partially.


Even though we can't organise in-ship battles, we can't still have fully functional massive ships (capital ships).

Also I think the massive capital ship thing should only be able to purchase by Factions, maybe only by the faction leader. Or else it would make no sense having a huge ship and taxing players around with your turrets.


For unfactioned and factioned players, well we really need more ships, and it's not that hard to set them up. Not all ships have to be stronger or weaker than one another. It would be nice to have a vast selection of ships. Along with decals. We need decals.

Just needs some coding, which of course can't be done without the GLORIOUS MIT. Our developer..


P.S. In general, space needs LOTS more content. But lots..


P.S.S. Done with copy paste.

Well yes, that could be possible in a short time. Like a multi cockpited ship. But in that case players couldn't capture it, just destroy. Well eventually even a large ship, with these limited capabilities, would mobilize more players. And if it is succesful, we should impore it with interirors.

But very first issue was visible cockpits. I think that could be done easily. After that larger ships could have interior, nut just capital shipsb (but they are the more important), but for example smaller ships could have only one room.

I mean have you ever seen a game like this? No, but there are a bit similar games too. But have you ever seen a game where you could walk in a ship, fly in space and land on planets? Not even in Star Wars Galaxies! In other games spacship interiors are just game levels. With a little advertisement, hundreds of new players will come, and they will stay.

P.S.: I just wanted to ask are you allow me to advertise the game on iwiw? Its like facebook. On iwiw lots of not alive entities exist: Football Teams, Companies, etc. I would only make it under the name of The Universal, thousand of people will see it, and its permanent.

Fooli wrote:

Tirion wrote:Its not easy to organise a fightnight and it will not be easier to organise even one battle involving a capital ship.

- I can't say definitively, but I can say with a large amount of confidence, that the code needed won't be written soon, if at all


Very unlikely anything like this will make it into the game in the foreseeable future, if at all.
f

Why? Are there no hopes for an active and properly working Mit development unit again?

Mishka wrote: 2. The turret code in general to be fixed.

Is it bugged?
If it is could i take a look at it? Its planet part of the game, may be its possible to edit it. Or planet part of the game can be edited only with Mit permission too?

Tirion wrote:

Mishka wrote: 2. The turret code in general to be fixed.

Is it bugged?
If it is could i take a look at it? Its planet part of the game, may be its possible to edit it. Or planet part of the game can be edited only with Mit permission too?

Only Mit.

And yes the turret code is not only bugged, it's #~$@&%% !!!!!!!

the turrent code seems to be working fine on 420
or is there something i'm missing?

My ideas for the whole capital ship thing:

Capital Ships would be a set of limited quantity unique items (maybe only 5 to 10 in total) that clans could come by only through great effort. Thus making them symbols of prestige. The Capital ship itself would be under the control of the clan leader. He (or she) would be the pilot in-charge of the ship during space battles/invasions/etc.

Due to the large bulk of the ship and its likely lack of traditional gameplay efficiency (difficult maneuvering, more limited than traditional warp/infimp drives, and so on) the cockpit might act as a detachable ship all in and of itself. Possessing its own set of engines/weapons/cargo bay, this ship could act as a way for the clan leader to get around in his normal day to day activities, but would be unique to that particular capital ship and would therefore be totally recognizable as a person of great importance (and power). This ship would be able to be destroyed like a normal ship, but this wouldn't affect the possession of the main portion of the ship and clan leader could repurchase the cockpit ship if needed (for a significant fee of course).

It would therefore be impossible to destroy a full capital ship in its entirety. That does not mean that the ship cannot be completely incapacitated in battle. And that leads into the main arena of importance for the full ship itself.

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While not in use (i.e. cockpitless), the main hull of the capital ship would lie in orbit above a planet in a system controlled by the clan. In this state, the ship has its shields set to max (with engines and weapons non-operational) so that enemies cannot damage or capture the ship when the leader is away.

When the leader/pilot is onboard (cockpit reattached), the ship would become operational (i.e. vulnerable). However, the capital ship is powerful enough that only a coordinated attack via another clan or perhaps another clan leader (who also has a capital ship of his own) would be able to stand up to it. Even if only the captain is aboard. Fully crewed, the capital ship can only fall into the hands of other clans via a sustained attack both on the exterior of the ship and eventually to the decks of the ship itself.

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Capturing a Capital ship:

The shield
The first main defense of the ship would be its shield. This would prevent any weapons fire or (enemy) ships from reaching the hull of the ship (including the docking bays).

Bypassing this defense could be done in two ways (open to additional suggestions). The first is a mere brute force attack of several ships continuously firing on the capital ship until the shield can no longer be sustained. Keep in mind there is likely to be turret fire emanating from the capital ship so this is harder than it sounds.

The second is to utilize what I shall call "probing ships". Probing ships are a class of small (one-manned) weakly armed craft only designed for really one purpose: penetrating the shield. Using advanced shield-resonance-coupling technology, the ship can burrow through the shield of the capital ship without being repelled. At this point, the ship could try to damage the capital ship with its weapons, but assuming the pilot isn't Neo from the matrix trilogy, the turrets would quickly do away with this pest before any real damage is done.

The real purpose of the probing ship is to get the pilot aboard the ship. This can be done by quickly setting down in the docking bay and making his or her way to the shield room where he quickly attempts to damage or sabotage the shield generator before falling victim to the laser fire of the crew.

Either way, once the shield falls (assuming it does at all), the real battle for control begins.


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(I will continue this when I have more time).

zaroba wrote:the turrent code seems to be working fine on 420
or is there something i'm missing?

Yes.

It's the vehicle turret code which is useless.

ahh yea. the vehicle turrets

...Continuing from the last post...

The Real Battle begins
Once the shield is down, two major things can happen.

The first is the obvious fact that players can now begin to damage the capital ship's systems from the exterior. The systems would include: engines, weapons (including turrets), communications, power systems and the command station/cockpit. The results of damaging/destroying each system are listed below.

Second is that all ships can begin to try to land in the docking bays and invade the capital ship.

Engines: Since most large craft operate using more that one main engines simply taking out one may only slightly hinder the ships abilities to move. As a general rule, the ships max speed will be reduced by whatever fraction is equal to the number of engines are offline (if a ship with 3 engines has 1 knock out, its linear and turn speed will be reduced by a third). This only refers to impulse-only of course, since a ship under attack will be in constant red alert status. Also, due to the physics that allow a ship to rotate itself, a ship needs a minimum of 2 engines operating in order to turn, but only a single engine can still propel the ship forward.

Weapons: Turrets and possibly other weapons systems will be scattered across the ship's hull and will act to reduce any nearby ships to space dust. The turrets themselves are of course capable of being destroyed and thereby creating a weak point for ships to take advantage of by hiding out of the range of the other turrets or making some of the docking bays more accessible. Turrets must be manned by a human player (yes, that means to auto-turrets) however, the player managing the turret does not necessarily need to be in the turret.

Since all capital ships (and most spaceships in general) are outfitted with vast electrical networks, it is simply a matter of a player being at a weapons control station inside the ship for the turret to be operated remotely. There are two main weapons control areas of a ship. The main one is generally a centrally located room within the ship where numerous players can take control of any turret and the push of a button. From here, the player does not risk their own life by being inside a turret that may be drawing fire from the outside and isn't physically limited to one particular turret (in other words a single player in the control center could chase a ships who is swooping around the hull by constantly switching to whichever turret happens to have the best shot. The disadvantage of such turret control is that no one is nearby the physical turret to repair it as it gets damaged and the main weapons control center will be liable to internal damage and sabotage by enemies within the ship. Rendering any turret controlled by someone in the room completely harmless (which could be a large number of them).

There is a second weapons control station aboard each ship (as I alluded to before). This is the cockpit. Although the pilot will probably be rather busy issuing orders and steering the ship, he does have the ability to command any turret from the comfort of his chair. This is one of the reasons it will be difficult to take a capital ship even if it has no crew apart from the pilot.

Communications: Although this has little physical benefit for the capital ship and the fleet, it can be a vital asset in strategic operations. Communications can be destroyed by incapacitating all of the radio emitters located outside the ship or by destroying the single (possibly more for the highest class of capital ships) communications super-computer located near the cockpit.

Communications allow the pilot to give his crew orders and also allow members of the crew to have a detailed mini-map of who is where in the ship (including what team they are on). If it could be worked out code wise, it might also provide the capital ship's accompanying fighters to have a 3-dimensional sense of where all the ships are at (would be complicated, but possibly very cool).

Power systems: In every capital ship there is a high powered reactor core that generates nearly all the power the ship uses. For obvious reasons, this will be one of the most difficult areas to reach/destroy for the attacking both from within and externally. However, both methods are do-able.

As with other things, the power core can destroyed by players in the ship. Unlike other systems, the power core will be located in a closed room which must be broken into to reach the core itself and it is likely that the ship's crew will station a player or two inside this room to fend off attacks and do necessary repairs.

Because of its vast size and the complexity of the power distribution within the ship itself, it is rather difficult to damage enough conductor coils running through the walls of the ship to completely prevent the distribution of power. That being said. If the hull of the ship does receive, sufficient pounding from the enemy ships, the power core will be essentially useless. Making weapons, communications, engines, and to a certain degree the shields just hunks of motionless metal.

The cockpit: This is the only part of the ship that is not unshielded once the primary force field is breached. Because the cockpit is essentially a ship in and of itself, the cockpit carries its very own shield generator. Coupled with the excess of energy flowing to it from a vast power core, this shield becomes a very tough nut to crack. Adding to this, some of the nastier defense systems are usually located in the vicinity of the cockpit's exterior. Making the average fighter pilot think twice about how much he wants to attack it. If the enemy is daring enough to bring the heat of several ships' weapons against the shield, it will fails. This allows the enemy team to destroy the cockpit from outside and claim the ship for themselves (not sure exactly how this will work).

The alternative, in-ship method is to slowly laser pistol your way through the thick blast doors connecting the cockpit to the rest of the ship and then kill the captain where he stands (this is a little more obvious as to how control would be exchanged).


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And then something magical happens and any remaining capital ship crew are teleported to the safety of the nearest space station where they lick their wounds while the victorious hijackers have a disco party on the ship's dance floor. (Obviously open to suggestion)

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I'll talk about my ideas for in-ship dieing and repairing at a later time.