If the destination planet was lifeless it shouldnt have any trades.. mm.. I've reset all the outlying planet space stations now - its probably a legacy of changing planets around and altering settings. Whats ur in game username, fhko? I'll send you somewhere where u can sell yer stuff if needs be.
Just found a bug in the uridium price scaling which meant the prices climbed 20 times faster than they should have. Will be fixed on a gal update shortly.
Btw, the next galserver update will also add the first bit of 'policing'.. if you kill someone in space while they're carrying 'illegal cargo' - narcotics or slaves atm - you'll be rewarded with a % of their current cash. (Later on.. you'll be able to increase the % gained by becoming a member of the 'Police' 'Faction' ). The cargo itself will be confiscated.
Space trade
what kind of percentages you thinking about here?Mit wrote: the next galserver update will also add the first bit of 'policing'.. if you kill someone in space while they're carrying 'illegal cargo' - narcotics or slaves atm - you'll be rewarded with a % of their current cash. (Later on.. you'll be able to increase the % gained by becoming a member of the 'Police' 'Faction' ). The cargo itself will be confiscated.
seems to me that anyone with a little money and a reasonable amount of common sense just won't trade those items - especially if they're looking to get enough creds together for upgrades - not unless the profit margins of those "illegal" commodities improve enough to make the risk worth it.
I got a idea...
Make it so there is a few planets in federation space that buys illegal goods. If a player scans the person with it, he can shoot him down.
However, the profits for it is enormous...
Like you buy it for 10s and sell it for 15s and gain 5s for each police fighter there is. Police get a good portion of the profit the trader would get.
Make it so there is a few planets in federation space that buys illegal goods. If a player scans the person with it, he can shoot him down.
However, the profits for it is enormous...
Like you buy it for 10s and sell it for 15s and gain 5s for each police fighter there is. Police get a good portion of the profit the trader would get.
ye - profit as a proportion of the value of the cargo would make more sense. Pirate loses his cargo (and seed money/potential profit) - police gain. I like 
Last edited by Sonro on Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
(bumped from space station bug thread )
Far from good to go at the mo, it seems:
Can we have stardrives big enough to get back to the home planets then? please?
or make a new drive available so we can infimp to a system with cargo? (not a planet - would make trade too easy and piracy too hard) or a transpatial portal-stargate-type thing?
the way things are at the moment there is currently NO way to get from the outer planets in the areas we were talking about to sell NT back to the home planets - only a small sector (see pic) is reachable from the home planets. last time I checked (friday - will check again today and report back) there were none of the New tech, science or military comoddities available in these reachable systems
and all of this is the reason neither chezz nor I have been seen much in the home systems, other than to check out Bongtopia occasionally - no way to get back and sell stuff there, so exploring further into deep space to find megaprofit
Also - and I've just checked (10.30am GMT)-
out of those home systems:
Cirrus - 2 planets buy NT, 2 buy rare metals
Tau -1 planet buys NT; 2 buy Rare Metals, 1 sells;
M25 - 1 planet buys rare metals
m209 - no NT, no RM
M362 - 1 planet buying rare metals
M383 - no viable trades - food/water/xfighters only
the only new high trade commodities that seem possible to sell in these "home systems" are construction materials and rare metals - all available within the home system- cant get back with NT, nowhere to sell military or science supplies (which doesnt matter cos there's nowhere supplying them).
if you've now balanced the deeper space stuff so that no-where is buying, to enable or encourage selling of these commodities to occur in the home systems, deep space trade is now defunct
)
Mit wrote:
Regarding the new tech stuff we discussed on email... dunno what i was drinking when i set all that up :]. Stared at the numbers for ages before realising they were all ok, but in completely the wrong places.. supposed to be that research bases generate small amounts of new tech that u can take to the home planets where its demanded.. ended up completely back to front
Far from good to go at the mo, it seems:
Can we have stardrives big enough to get back to the home planets then? please?
or make a new drive available so we can infimp to a system with cargo? (not a planet - would make trade too easy and piracy too hard) or a transpatial portal-stargate-type thing?
the way things are at the moment there is currently NO way to get from the outer planets in the areas we were talking about to sell NT back to the home planets - only a small sector (see pic) is reachable from the home planets. last time I checked (friday - will check again today and report back) there were none of the New tech, science or military comoddities available in these reachable systems
and all of this is the reason neither chezz nor I have been seen much in the home systems, other than to check out Bongtopia occasionally - no way to get back and sell stuff there, so exploring further into deep space to find megaprofit
Also - and I've just checked (10.30am GMT)-
out of those home systems:
Cirrus - 2 planets buy NT, 2 buy rare metals
Tau -1 planet buys NT; 2 buy Rare Metals, 1 sells;
M25 - 1 planet buys rare metals
m209 - no NT, no RM
M362 - 1 planet buying rare metals
M383 - no viable trades - food/water/xfighters only
the only new high trade commodities that seem possible to sell in these "home systems" are construction materials and rare metals - all available within the home system- cant get back with NT, nowhere to sell military or science supplies (which doesnt matter cos there's nowhere supplying them).
if you've now balanced the deeper space stuff so that no-where is buying, to enable or encourage selling of these commodities to occur in the home systems, deep space trade is now defunct
ok, theres still a big difference in being technically 'good to go' and actually being vaguely balanced and playable
>> Can we have stardrives big enough to get back to the home planets then? please?
Yes.. you should be able to stardrive from remote research bases back to the home systems. I may have to risk moving a star or two. (*trembles*)
The most profitable trade routes should be either a) illegal or b) involve a number of drive jumps and a return to the home, or nearby, systems. (This latter bit is neccessary otherwise it'd be too easy to avoid future pirates just by trading & hanging about only in deep space..)
New technologies should be produced only in remote research bases, and demanded only in home systems. Rare metals should be produced only in mining colonies and demanded only in home (and nearby) systems. Construction materials should be produced only in home and nearby systems and demanded in the more remote ones.
Thatd form your basic deep-space trade stuff, with other specials and extras to come later. (By the time you've reached the sorta high level wealth you currently have, there should be/will be some other special stuff you'd be doin instead).
Will have a tinker tonight or tomorrow to try to sort out the accessibility of remote stuff. The principle sound ok to you?
>> Can we have stardrives big enough to get back to the home planets then? please?
Yes.. you should be able to stardrive from remote research bases back to the home systems. I may have to risk moving a star or two. (*trembles*)
That surprises me tho.. the gal auto-generated the planet types randomnly, and the chances of none being there in that upper left quadrant are quite slim. That said.. the gal does seem to enjoy producing rare unexpected effects atm :]none of the New tech, science or military comoddities available in these reachable systems
The intention is that stuff produced by colonies isnt demanded in the colonies.if you've now balanced the deeper space stuff so that no-where is buying..
The most profitable trade routes should be either a) illegal or b) involve a number of drive jumps and a return to the home, or nearby, systems. (This latter bit is neccessary otherwise it'd be too easy to avoid future pirates just by trading & hanging about only in deep space..)
New technologies should be produced only in remote research bases, and demanded only in home systems. Rare metals should be produced only in mining colonies and demanded only in home (and nearby) systems. Construction materials should be produced only in home and nearby systems and demanded in the more remote ones.
Thatd form your basic deep-space trade stuff, with other specials and extras to come later. (By the time you've reached the sorta high level wealth you currently have, there should be/will be some other special stuff you'd be doin instead).
Will have a tinker tonight or tomorrow to try to sort out the accessibility of remote stuff. The principle sound ok to you?
makes sense
Currently zipping around the left corner quadrant taking screenshots of trade reports, to try and get a clearer view of whats going on. Have found (so far) only 1 planet selling NT, with 12 in stock - have visited about 20
if ya want, i can zip & email, so you can see from a player (rather than code) perspective - may give a bit more clarity ?
Currently zipping around the left corner quadrant taking screenshots of trade reports, to try and get a clearer view of whats going on. Have found (so far) only 1 planet selling NT, with 12 in stock - have visited about 20
if ya want, i can zip & email, so you can see from a player (rather than code) perspective - may give a bit more clarity ?
Done.
basically - out of 37 reachable systems (inc the home ones)
3 have lifeless planets trading - M129, M139, M53
2 systems have planets which sell NT ( & one of those is lifeless) - systems M240, M129 - for which you can get a grand total of 20-30cr profit per item. considerin' there's 12 in stock, at 6k+ per item - not quite the big bonus....
1 system has a planet which sells military hardware (M183)
on a slightly different note
uridium prices vary (0.3-1.7) not as bad as it has been, but I'm not sure I understand your logic - you stated elsewhere that the higher price of uridium reflects the demand in those further afield areas
firstly - there is less demand - less of us able to travel further afield
also - think about this for a mo - prices in Glasgow are similar to London - maybe even a wee bit cheaper up here in the provinces. If i were to drive to London, the increased cost of petrol would be implicit in the fact that I would have to refuel en route - prices may be slightly higher on the motorway, but not 4 or 5x increased! If i traveled via more remote/rural areas, again I would expect to pay slightly higher - but feck 500% inflation
basically - out of 37 reachable systems (inc the home ones)
3 have lifeless planets trading - M129, M139, M53
2 systems have planets which sell NT ( & one of those is lifeless) - systems M240, M129 - for which you can get a grand total of 20-30cr profit per item. considerin' there's 12 in stock, at 6k+ per item - not quite the big bonus....
1 system has a planet which sells military hardware (M183)
on a slightly different note
uridium prices vary (0.3-1.7) not as bad as it has been, but I'm not sure I understand your logic - you stated elsewhere that the higher price of uridium reflects the demand in those further afield areas
firstly - there is less demand - less of us able to travel further afield
also - think about this for a mo - prices in Glasgow are similar to London - maybe even a wee bit cheaper up here in the provinces. If i were to drive to London, the increased cost of petrol would be implicit in the fact that I would have to refuel en route - prices may be slightly higher on the motorway, but not 4 or 5x increased! If i traveled via more remote/rural areas, again I would expect to pay slightly higher - but feck 500% inflation
Last edited by Sonro on Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
Thanks for the info.
nice try, but that analogy doesnt stand up :].. Its more the equivalent of esso or someone opening a fuel station on the moon.. yes you'd have to pay for the fuel to get there, and you wouldnt be suprised if it cost more when you arrived. I wonder how much petrol costs in the antartic?
Or to put it another way, Glasgow isnt a remote research base, its just a primitive industrial society in m-25 :]
Anyway, background justifications aside.. the increase in prices is really quite small (certainly relative to the amount of money you have ;] ) and its there mainly to help balance the costs & profits that ppl advancing the game have to face.. One of the biggest problem with any econ system (world econs, space econs, real-world econs) is that the people who get rich first just keep on getting richer & richer as their resources and inventory increase.. Not that i think having to spend an extra 10s out of your millions will affect that that much.. :]
i believe it was "as a reflection of the costs in transporting the stuff from production planets" rather than "Demand".the higher price of uridium reflects the demand in those further afield areas
nice try, but that analogy doesnt stand up :].. Its more the equivalent of esso or someone opening a fuel station on the moon.. yes you'd have to pay for the fuel to get there, and you wouldnt be suprised if it cost more when you arrived. I wonder how much petrol costs in the antartic?
Or to put it another way, Glasgow isnt a remote research base, its just a primitive industrial society in m-25 :]
Anyway, background justifications aside.. the increase in prices is really quite small (certainly relative to the amount of money you have ;] ) and its there mainly to help balance the costs & profits that ppl advancing the game have to face.. One of the biggest problem with any econ system (world econs, space econs, real-world econs) is that the people who get rich first just keep on getting richer & richer as their resources and inventory increase.. Not that i think having to spend an extra 10s out of your millions will affect that that much.. :]
ok - firstly - this has nothing at all to do with the amount of credits I currently have - I'm not being a stereotypical tightfisted scot or just trying to protect my already huge profits- just doin my bit to try get a reasonable balance before the reset and advertising kick in in a couple of weeks.
Done a bit of maths, to figure out the costs involved in the deep space trade:
- to get to the level of ship (and possiblity of trade) that I'm currently at, will take approx 84,000cr - thats infimp, L40 drive, stellar freighter and 25t extension at current prices (which are all half what I paid at most) - and thats not including upgrades on the way - smaller stardrives, smaller ships etc - add at least another 50k for those
add to that the cost of the cargo - up to 390,000 cr for a full cargo of NT if this can be found, more reasonably 50,000 for a full load of narcotics or contruction or 162,000 for a full load of military supplies
point of that little exercise - Space trade is not cheap! (I'm SO glad this isn't real money)
UPDATE: Uriduim at current levels - in reachable systems up to 12cr per 10units (system Dude - check the screengrabs I sent yesterday - most sell at 4cr or below, a few over 10)
given that most long range routes need at least one re-fuel each way, and the current "bonus" of NT in reachable planets is merely 20cr per unit (1300cr IF a full load can be found) other items max profit being between 5-10cr (325-650cr per load) - the economics don't make sense at this level of trade - even at lower prices (2-4cr), trading narc or military, it can cost up to 80% of the profit to buy enough uridium to transport the cargo - and that's with a 65t capacity. smaller ship the profit margin is even less
OK - I accept that in my earlier post i was being overoptimistic, and paying slightly more for uridium in deeper space is really not a problem - but when it gets to these levels, its kinda silly, and becomes prohibitive - bigger profits remain in the home systems, nullifying the need or the desire to get out and trade further afield.
hopefully after your recent tweaking the prices will settle down a bit, but i'd be inclined to set the max limit at 1.5-2cr in those outer systems.
if the prices are going to remain higher than that - the transport costs need to be covered in the profit margins - bringing it back to a domestic analogy again - you're not going to find many freight businesses transporting your gear at their own expense - the costs incurred in transport are reflected in your bill, not their decreased profit margin
Done a bit of maths, to figure out the costs involved in the deep space trade:
- to get to the level of ship (and possiblity of trade) that I'm currently at, will take approx 84,000cr - thats infimp, L40 drive, stellar freighter and 25t extension at current prices (which are all half what I paid at most) - and thats not including upgrades on the way - smaller stardrives, smaller ships etc - add at least another 50k for those
add to that the cost of the cargo - up to 390,000 cr for a full cargo of NT if this can be found, more reasonably 50,000 for a full load of narcotics or contruction or 162,000 for a full load of military supplies
point of that little exercise - Space trade is not cheap! (I'm SO glad this isn't real money)
UPDATE: Uriduim at current levels - in reachable systems up to 12cr per 10units (system Dude - check the screengrabs I sent yesterday - most sell at 4cr or below, a few over 10)
given that most long range routes need at least one re-fuel each way, and the current "bonus" of NT in reachable planets is merely 20cr per unit (1300cr IF a full load can be found) other items max profit being between 5-10cr (325-650cr per load) - the economics don't make sense at this level of trade - even at lower prices (2-4cr), trading narc or military, it can cost up to 80% of the profit to buy enough uridium to transport the cargo - and that's with a 65t capacity. smaller ship the profit margin is even less
OK - I accept that in my earlier post i was being overoptimistic, and paying slightly more for uridium in deeper space is really not a problem - but when it gets to these levels, its kinda silly, and becomes prohibitive - bigger profits remain in the home systems, nullifying the need or the desire to get out and trade further afield.
hopefully after your recent tweaking the prices will settle down a bit, but i'd be inclined to set the max limit at 1.5-2cr in those outer systems.
if the prices are going to remain higher than that - the transport costs need to be covered in the profit margins - bringing it back to a domestic analogy again - you're not going to find many freight businesses transporting your gear at their own expense - the costs incurred in transport are reflected in your bill, not their decreased profit margin
Mit wrote:
>> Can we have stardrives big enough to get back to the home planets then? please?
Yes.. you should be able to stardrive from remote research bases back to the home systems. I may have to risk moving a star or two. (*trembles*)
presumably, if system locations etc are randomly generated, moving them could be pretty difficult (esp. given your *trembles*). I'm happy to just zoom around when i get the chance and check things are working ok if you let me know vague locations
diden't you also say that the number of planets in systems is random and changes whenever the galaxy gets rebooted?
nah, thats safe.
*whistles innocently*Rather that moving stars, why not install wormholes at key locations?
regarding the lack of incentive to trading NT etc.. Will look into proper balance for that.. Its easier to adjust a difficult product-line that doesnt reward enuf than an easy one that rewards too much - will just increase the margins some more once its proved 'difficult'
Eh? What? What did I miss!?!?*whistles innocently*
Can you give us a hint, otherwise it's like looking for a needle in a haystack without being told what a needle is or where the haystack is!
Have you added this yet?
If you have, does it show up on a system map or do you have to physically find it?
HELP!!
