Mit > ur lady wants 2 ice creams? Man u got a greedy missus
wat the hell is the name of those ice creams with the bubble gum ball in the bottom?
Economy on zoric island
the number of buildings that each person could buy would have to be limited, this would mean that ppl buy a cheap building, make a small proffit out of it then sell it and move onto a higher proffit making building.
Mit > ur lady wants 2 ice creams? Man u got a greedy missus
wat the hell is the name of those ice creams with the bubble gum ball in the bottom?
Mit > ur lady wants 2 ice creams? Man u got a greedy missus
wat the hell is the name of those ice creams with the bubble gum ball in the bottom?
Ideally this would happen on all islands, but its rather hard to implement, this is what the skills level was kind of for i believe, but its hard to force people into doing it the way we'd like it to be done, especially as this game is a very free will game where you can do almost anything you want.ppl buy a cheap building, make a small proffit out of it then sell it and move onto a higher proffit making building.
Obviously there are restrictions and settings to persuade people to do what we want, but ultimatly every player does what he/she wishes
umm? its not hard to set up something with incremental building prices to control who builds what really.. (is it? :] well.. yeh, the buildings.dat editor is fiddly but its not really that "difficult". I mean.. its not brain surgery. :] ) Having skill levels to control access to different level buildings is also possible.
I think Reine Blanche proved how easy it is to control what ppl do on the islands, its just a matter of getting a good gameplay balance.
JJ.. wasnt it something like a "bazooka"? Or no.. not that.. mmmm :]
I think Reine Blanche proved how easy it is to control what ppl do on the islands, its just a matter of getting a good gameplay balance.
JJ.. wasnt it something like a "bazooka"? Or no.. not that.. mmmm :]
zoric has always had incrimental costs in buildings, and items. look at the vehicle facs. and when buildings need materials, look at the material requirements.
see how well it works?
the rent till buy method has been done in the past too, but it's never worked well as people would just move to an easier island. or just sit around complaining about it.
what do you think about the following as a new island?
1 town
1 gov store providing food/drinks/materials
1 school (or 2) providing all the skills
and nothing else.
see how well it works?
the rent till buy method has been done in the past too, but it's never worked well as people would just move to an easier island. or just sit around complaining about it.
what do you think about the following as a new island?
1 town
1 gov store providing food/drinks/materials
1 school (or 2) providing all the skills
and nothing else.
i personnally haven't seen an island pull off the 'build you way up' style yet...
Reine could have done this by making it possible just to have 1 building at the start... and then build it up, but thats not like a regular econ, its team, so you get everyone to chip in.
Zorics not got this either, except for the vehicle facs.
Reine could have done this by making it possible just to have 1 building at the start... and then build it up, but thats not like a regular econ, its team, so you get everyone to chip in.
Zorics not got this either, except for the vehicle facs.
you can't really make a real build your way up economy. skill level requirement for building isen't programmed yet, so once materials are made, thiers nothing to stop somebody from building a top level thing besides cost. and currently thiers only 4 tech levels that can be used. so that slims it down a bit. and once the first 25 people in get materials made, thiers no more forced build your way up.
with that said, all the zorics have always been as close as possible to build your way up.
you had to have wood to make stone
you had to have stone to make steel
you had to have steel to make plastics
vehicle facs always increased in tech levels too.
car fac 1 = level 0, fac 2 = level 1, fac 3 = level 2, fac 4 = level 3, plane fac 1 = 2, plane fac 2 = 3, plus notice that the car facs always cost 250s - 1000s more then the previous one. the cars themselves always increase in cost too. ranging from 100s for a v2 to usually over 1k for the top car, and a seperate price scale for the planes. zoric 6 also used the vehicle usage skills too, its not in z7 though due to mimicing the older version.
thiers also houses which always cost a ton more then the smaller, lower tech level one. but because this is pretty useless for houses, i will probably no longer be doing it for them. instead thier will just be several similer houses costing the same, and maybe a larger mansion type that costs alot more.
besides vehicles, materials, houses, and weapons thiers no stuff that can really be a work your way up thing.
like most of the food. food needs to be buildable from the start same as fuel, or it would be much harder and not realistic at all
the main production buildings and some farms on zoric 8 will also have double capacity versions of them for double the price and tec level. of course, you'll have to destroy the smaller building first, and once the materials are around and you have mnoney, thiers no way to force getting the lower building first.
to really be a build your way up type economy, you'd also have to force each player to follow it. but for the most part, thats also not possible. since once somebody makes something, its usually possible for others to buy the item, or buy the building instead of working upto it.
with that said, all the zorics have always been as close as possible to build your way up.
you had to have wood to make stone
you had to have stone to make steel
you had to have steel to make plastics
vehicle facs always increased in tech levels too.
car fac 1 = level 0, fac 2 = level 1, fac 3 = level 2, fac 4 = level 3, plane fac 1 = 2, plane fac 2 = 3, plus notice that the car facs always cost 250s - 1000s more then the previous one. the cars themselves always increase in cost too. ranging from 100s for a v2 to usually over 1k for the top car, and a seperate price scale for the planes. zoric 6 also used the vehicle usage skills too, its not in z7 though due to mimicing the older version.
thiers also houses which always cost a ton more then the smaller, lower tech level one. but because this is pretty useless for houses, i will probably no longer be doing it for them. instead thier will just be several similer houses costing the same, and maybe a larger mansion type that costs alot more.
besides vehicles, materials, houses, and weapons thiers no stuff that can really be a work your way up thing.
like most of the food. food needs to be buildable from the start same as fuel, or it would be much harder and not realistic at all
the main production buildings and some farms on zoric 8 will also have double capacity versions of them for double the price and tec level. of course, you'll have to destroy the smaller building first, and once the materials are around and you have mnoney, thiers no way to force getting the lower building first.
to really be a build your way up type economy, you'd also have to force each player to follow it. but for the most part, thats also not possible. since once somebody makes something, its usually possible for others to buy the item, or buy the building instead of working upto it.
In the last two paragraphs you got what i was going for here.
I meant buildings,(using the food as a example) the way ideally you'd start with a small hotdog stand, then after a while you'd upgrade to a burger joint, then to a full on restaurant... but the thing is, its hard to have all 3, because if someone gets the restaurant and sells food cheaper and has more stock, the hot dog stand guy wont make a deneri... so its hard to create a chain, without helping the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...
I meant buildings,(using the food as a example) the way ideally you'd start with a small hotdog stand, then after a while you'd upgrade to a burger joint, then to a full on restaurant... but the thing is, its hard to have all 3, because if someone gets the restaurant and sells food cheaper and has more stock, the hot dog stand guy wont make a deneri... so its hard to create a chain, without helping the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...
"skill level requirement for building isen't programmed yet"
Yes it is
"only 4 tech levels that can be used"
255
"i personnally haven't seen an island pull off the 'build you way up' style yet... "
then maybe its time
"Reine .. its team, so you get everyone to chip in. "
can't see any reason why that should affect things
"since once somebody makes something, its usually possible for others to buy the item, or buy the building instead of working upto it."
Doesnt have to be like that.. if you've got a sufficient scaling in the prices of things, then there can easily be no way a new player can get the things a rich player has. (Unless the rich player decides to sell the expensive building ridiculous cheap - but ya cant really counter for charity :] - Similarly.. a new player shouldnt be able to buy the best vehicles until they've earned money. )
Again - basically i think this primarily comes down to gettin a good gameplay balance. It aint an easy thing to do for sure - thats why they normally pay games designers for months to do it - but its certainly possible.
Not succumbing to the temptation to make things easier because you get complaints if players cant get stuff easily is difficult, and obviously you cant go too far else you'll put too many ppl off, but ultimately its required at times. (Btw, any worlds that do make it easy for ppl to own things will eventually get shoved off to more remote parts of the galaxy, so that new players will get used to not having everything immediately.)
Zions too hard for most ppl, of course, with not enough things to build or do, particularly early on, but get a balance somewhere between Zion and Zoric and ur sorted i reckon.
"besides vehicles, materials, houses, and weapons thiers no stuff that can really be a work your way up thing. "
um whats left? :] ahh yeh.. food.
" ideally you'd start with a small hotdog stand, then after a while you'd upgrade to a burger joint, then to a full on restaurant... but the thing is, its hard to have all 3, because if someone gets the restaurant and sells food cheaper and has more stock, the hot dog stand guy wont make a deneri... so its hard to create a chain, without helping the rich get richer and the poor get poorer..."
Again, thats mostly a matter of setting up a good economic balance. Food is a slightly difficult issue coz theres little to be gained between foods. (However, to enhance that, i've changed some foods around in the next patch so that the worst ones (the junk food) damages your health (particularly long-term). )
With that extra.. if theres enough scale in the prices (so that hotdog stands might sell crap food at 1d and restaurants sell good food at 20s) ya'll have a system where the poor eat hotdogs coz they cant afford to go to restaurants, and the rich eat at restaurants coz they dont wanna die :].
So the root of the problem you highlight there, Tom - "if someone gets the restaurant and sells food cheaper" - comes down to just a problem with the economy settings - If someone gets a restaurant and is able to sell things cheaper then you've got the wrong product settings.
Its more obvious if you ignore the food aspect for the moment - say its vehicles, and a poor guy sells tractors for 10s, then a rich guy comes along and starts selling ferraris for 5s - Itd seem pretty obvious to me that theres something wrong with your production prices.
Yes it is
"only 4 tech levels that can be used"
255
"i personnally haven't seen an island pull off the 'build you way up' style yet... "
then maybe its time
"Reine .. its team, so you get everyone to chip in. "
can't see any reason why that should affect things
"since once somebody makes something, its usually possible for others to buy the item, or buy the building instead of working upto it."
Doesnt have to be like that.. if you've got a sufficient scaling in the prices of things, then there can easily be no way a new player can get the things a rich player has. (Unless the rich player decides to sell the expensive building ridiculous cheap - but ya cant really counter for charity :] - Similarly.. a new player shouldnt be able to buy the best vehicles until they've earned money. )
Again - basically i think this primarily comes down to gettin a good gameplay balance. It aint an easy thing to do for sure - thats why they normally pay games designers for months to do it - but its certainly possible.
Not succumbing to the temptation to make things easier because you get complaints if players cant get stuff easily is difficult, and obviously you cant go too far else you'll put too many ppl off, but ultimately its required at times. (Btw, any worlds that do make it easy for ppl to own things will eventually get shoved off to more remote parts of the galaxy, so that new players will get used to not having everything immediately.)
Zions too hard for most ppl, of course, with not enough things to build or do, particularly early on, but get a balance somewhere between Zion and Zoric and ur sorted i reckon.
"besides vehicles, materials, houses, and weapons thiers no stuff that can really be a work your way up thing. "
um whats left? :] ahh yeh.. food.
" ideally you'd start with a small hotdog stand, then after a while you'd upgrade to a burger joint, then to a full on restaurant... but the thing is, its hard to have all 3, because if someone gets the restaurant and sells food cheaper and has more stock, the hot dog stand guy wont make a deneri... so its hard to create a chain, without helping the rich get richer and the poor get poorer..."
Again, thats mostly a matter of setting up a good economic balance. Food is a slightly difficult issue coz theres little to be gained between foods. (However, to enhance that, i've changed some foods around in the next patch so that the worst ones (the junk food) damages your health (particularly long-term). )
With that extra.. if theres enough scale in the prices (so that hotdog stands might sell crap food at 1d and restaurants sell good food at 20s) ya'll have a system where the poor eat hotdogs coz they cant afford to go to restaurants, and the rich eat at restaurants coz they dont wanna die :].
So the root of the problem you highlight there, Tom - "if someone gets the restaurant and sells food cheaper" - comes down to just a problem with the economy settings - If someone gets a restaurant and is able to sell things cheaper then you've got the wrong product settings.
Its more obvious if you ignore the food aspect for the moment - say its vehicles, and a poor guy sells tractors for 10s, then a rich guy comes along and starts selling ferraris for 5s - Itd seem pretty obvious to me that theres something wrong with your production prices.
ok then, in the past it has been pretty hard to force it without drastic and unrealistic priceing differenceMit wrote:"skill level requirement for building isen't programmed yet"
Yes it is
"only 4 tech levels that can be used"
255
"i personnally haven't seen an island pull off the 'build you way up' style yet... "
then maybe its time
if the build skill level required to build certain tec buildings is now in place, along with the 255 tech levels, then they shall be in future zorics.
what are the material requirements for the 4+ tech buildings?
all levels above 4 use the same as level 4, it just affects the price and skill level required
As a general point, I would recommend questioning whether you really need to do that.. Adding more options isnt necessarily gonna be the best way to go - fundamentally you've still gotta get the balance of products and stuff right, whether you use the skill levels or not, and simple gameplay is often the best.
What do you mean by "unrealistic" price differences? :] Is there a realistic price for a jetpacking tractor these days?
As a general point, I would recommend questioning whether you really need to do that.. Adding more options isnt necessarily gonna be the best way to go - fundamentally you've still gotta get the balance of products and stuff right, whether you use the skill levels or not, and simple gameplay is often the best.
What do you mean by "unrealistic" price differences? :] Is there a realistic price for a jetpacking tractor these days?
JJ I'm still waiting for my 99... hope it hasn't melted!
Well mit, i'm glad you've changed the food stuff around, but what i was saying about the prices, is that the restaurant has to have some advantages because it will cost more, like hold more food, and sell cheaper or something... Now you've made these changes it should help, as it can sell better food at more expensive costs, but still be popular.
By George I Think Hes Got It
Well mit, i'm glad you've changed the food stuff around, but what i was saying about the prices, is that the restaurant has to have some advantages because it will cost more, like hold more food, and sell cheaper or something... Now you've made these changes it should help, as it can sell better food at more expensive costs, but still be popular.
By George I Think Hes Got It
the editor's cost and stock estimate has the Nutrition/Cost ratings for food. should easily help make it all worth its cost, just get the Nutrition/Cost to be the same for everything. only problem with it is that haveing 2 or more buildings makeing the same item at different costs screws it up. so might be good to "turn off" the production of the item in one building while tweaking it on the other.
I'll go for a magnum, a Twister and a '99. I'm humgry.
As you your minimalist island Zar, I'd go for:
10 Houses
1 School
1 Fuel Stop w/ 1000 fuel
1 Tea Shop w/ 1000 tea/coffee/cakes/etc.
250s
Food/Fuel is expensively overpriced (1.5-2s over make cost)
This idea of giving the inhabitants minimal food and fuel will give them enough to keep them alive while they build an economy - And if they don't get their arse in gear, nothing will happen and they will die. Though the island will too...
As you your minimalist island Zar, I'd go for:
10 Houses
1 School
1 Fuel Stop w/ 1000 fuel
1 Tea Shop w/ 1000 tea/coffee/cakes/etc.
250s
Food/Fuel is expensively overpriced (1.5-2s over make cost)
This idea of giving the inhabitants minimal food and fuel will give them enough to keep them alive while they build an economy - And if they don't get their arse in gear, nothing will happen and they will die. Though the island will too...
