Players who know the current planitia econ would say it's nice, a bit harsh maybe, but fair mostly - what do you think 0 wage grant will do to the economy?
Although, to be fair, Junk did say he would reimberse all players if it went badly
Planitia changing - please read.
Planitia changing - please read.
A very possible change for planitia will be that wage grant will be set to 0. I have explained to junk how devistating this will be for the economy, but obviously he needs to see it for himself. What are everyones views on this, is it a good idea? I would say not, as business is slow, and wages will cost more than the profit being made - prices would go up up up, or business's would plummet.
Players who know the current planitia econ would say it's nice, a bit harsh maybe, but fair mostly - what do you think 0 wage grant will do to the economy?
Although, to be fair, Junk did say he would reimberse all players if it went badly
Players who know the current planitia econ would say it's nice, a bit harsh maybe, but fair mostly - what do you think 0 wage grant will do to the economy?
Although, to be fair, Junk did say he would reimberse all players if it went badly
no, they dont mean you dont get paid. wage grant is the amount of money the government chips in to your salery. If your making 10s a month and the government is set to grant 6s, then the building owner only loses 4s from his investment. Its pretty much the way that most people make more then they lose, in the real world for every nickel someone has, it came from someone else and that is how planitia will become. Hope thats not too confusing for ya jasonx.
I myself think it should be set higher then 0, that is not gonna reward newbies or people who have no bussiness. Great, a sheckle...i can buy a pack of gum.
I myself think it should be set higher then 0, that is not gonna reward newbies or people who have no bussiness. Great, a sheckle...i can buy a pack of gum.
Last edited by izaboo on Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
i know you mean 0, but if you look at it, you can currently employ somebody for 1s if you wanted. with 0 wage grant thats only 1s out of your pocket. unlike last planitia, you were FORCED to pay 3s out of your pocket by the min salery, from the start of theisland. so your only paying 1/3rd less then last planitia, its not as bad as it was last planitia and all went fine.
Yes, but given the fact that money itself is reasonably hard to get, atleast for me it is, having it so that you pay the entire wage would totally screw out certain facilities such as farms that only produce goods once a year, so would have to figure in a much larger price to pay off the years worth of salary, which would enevitably lead to either a losing business, or much higher prices for food. Certain other industries would also see problems due to the lack of excess money lying around.
Fish really isn't a source since it takes much more money via food/water to get fish than you get back from selling the fish. Already tried that. And the influx of newbies will eventually dry up...
Not saying that setting it at 0 might not be a bad idea later, but at this point I'm just barely making enough money to keep myself stocked with food, and since all my business aren't doing anything, I'm only living because of getting a job skill that have a very limited demand, along with the income from bank account. I can't see very many people doing better than me at this point. Incase you havn't noticed, there are a good many businesses that aren't doing anything because of either no investment, or prices not being set right. Currently they are only staffed because of the wage grant. Without it, the businesses would constantly be demanding workers then firing them right away, leading to a false census, and alot of people unable to get money from work skills. Ultimately leading to alot of reset requests. Maybe when the vasy majority of people have sufficient cash to spend it might make sense... But not now, nor any time soon.
Not saying that setting it at 0 might not be a bad idea later, but at this point I'm just barely making enough money to keep myself stocked with food, and since all my business aren't doing anything, I'm only living because of getting a job skill that have a very limited demand, along with the income from bank account. I can't see very many people doing better than me at this point. Incase you havn't noticed, there are a good many businesses that aren't doing anything because of either no investment, or prices not being set right. Currently they are only staffed because of the wage grant. Without it, the businesses would constantly be demanding workers then firing them right away, leading to a false census, and alot of people unable to get money from work skills. Ultimately leading to alot of reset requests. Maybe when the vasy majority of people have sufficient cash to spend it might make sense... But not now, nor any time soon.
Problem with most people is they are not used to being poor, on Zoric the other day i had 106s, i need hops badly to produce beer, so i gave Junk 100s to build his Arable 2 Farm, i dont care, its a very wise investment, as beer will later on have a demand, get used to being poor or broke, and as for a job, we all know what it means
J-Just
O-Over
B-Broke
Some of yuh little tikes might not know that saying, anyways.
J-Just
O-Over
B-Broke
Some of yuh little tikes might not know that saying, anyways.
Vagrant wrote:Yes, but given the fact that money itself is reasonably hard to get, atleast for me it is, having it so that you pay the entire wage would totally screw out certain facilities such as farms that only produce goods once a year, so would have to figure in a much larger price to pay off the years worth of salary, which would enevitably lead to either a losing business, or much higher prices for food. Certain other industries would also see problems due to the lack of excess money lying around.
part of the above post has left me to rethink my changing the current wage grant idea,the wage grant WILL NOT be change in year 50 as i stated before, i will think more on how to make the change and announce my "new" idea later
Junk
Dont forget..1.Noobies
2.Government Buildings that Buy
3.The Bank Intrest
4. Unemployment benefit
5. Treasury Prizes (kill rewards, lottery bonuses etc)
(Btw, theres a display on the server that shows where all the money comes and goes in each economy.. Be interesting to see what sorta state the treasury is in on some of the econ worlds. Care to post it, junk/jem?)
Personally, i always like to see as little government intervention (or 'cheating the econ' if ya wanna view it that way) in any world, and things like 0 wage grants are best imo, if they can be achieved reasonably. Its often difficult to balance - as vagrant & junk have described - but often thats more an indication that the 'fault' lies in those things rather than the wage grant.. i.e. If farms arent viable without a wage grant, then it probably indicates that the farm needs to be made more productive/profitable in the buildings setup.
only problem with very little government help is that it generally makes for a very hard island and islands where only the good players end up suceeding.
it would force alot of people to be poor to let some get rich, and with money constantly flowing OUT of the economy (new building tax, jehovah building purchases, island sales tax) everybody could end up poor in the long run anyway. sure, in real life thiers no problems with some people being poor and others rich, but in real life, if you go broke you wont die the next day from starvation. poor players also could just stop playing the island resulting in only the rich being alive.
unless thier was no money flowing out of the economy, then a no gov help economy might have a hard time running.
it would force alot of people to be poor to let some get rich, and with money constantly flowing OUT of the economy (new building tax, jehovah building purchases, island sales tax) everybody could end up poor in the long run anyway. sure, in real life thiers no problems with some people being poor and others rich, but in real life, if you go broke you wont die the next day from starvation. poor players also could just stop playing the island resulting in only the rich being alive.
unless thier was no money flowing out of the economy, then a no gov help economy might have a hard time running.
i think until the new owner manual is finished things will pretty much stay as is on planitia. after i get the new manual i think i can setup a better econ system.i have already made it possible for a town owner to "zone" ( set aside areas of town for specific buildings ie. houses only zones) using surface texture properties. there has been many changes made possible for new settings it just takes time to get them all together so owners can see them properly. i have many ideas for econ systems it just takes time to sort it all out. Planitia will eventually be the best econ planet availabe ( thats my plan)
Junk
Junk
Well, yeh, indeed, zar.. but then, i dont like those things either coz they're as much of a fudge as wage grants etc. (Neither do you *have* to use any of those options)and with money constantly flowing OUT of the economy (new building tax, jehovah building purchases, island sales tax)
Point is, in an ideal economy there should be no need of such fudges and (most importantly) ppl would still be able to survive, get rich and enjoy spending their cash.
Not saying its easy to create, or indeed always possible with the limited systems available in the game at any point and the lack of economic certainty thats inevitable in a gaming environment, but it should always be a goal.
i woulden't mind trying a zoric island without any grants/taxes etc. i'm kinda interested to see how well it would work actually.
for 1, thierd need to be a way to stop people from going around and makeing hundreds of building bases and never finishing them resulting in whole towns of nothing but building bases. which would also reder skill level upgrading useless, and any type of progressive economy unless the buildings just weren't available to build yet.
would it be possible to have a sorta government tax that will pay the whole amount back to the player on tax day? like, a house base costs 250s to build, and when tax day comes, they get that 250s back. it would be a real good way to limit building of stuff and keep skill level upgrading and progression in the economy.
thiers also jehovah buildings. i guess they could just be not for sale and have a 32k daily decay to get rid of them right away, but then thats a loss of money from the economy (but so is the owner dying). maybe just have jehovah sale price set at 1 so jehovah buildings are practicly givin away for free.
would also need a way to balence out the money to stop 1 or 2 people from getting super rich and everybody else going broke and dying or giving up. if the lower wealth people leave, then the rich people will have no income source or nothing to do at all and it will eventually result in an abandoned island.
for 1, thierd need to be a way to stop people from going around and makeing hundreds of building bases and never finishing them resulting in whole towns of nothing but building bases. which would also reder skill level upgrading useless, and any type of progressive economy unless the buildings just weren't available to build yet.
would it be possible to have a sorta government tax that will pay the whole amount back to the player on tax day? like, a house base costs 250s to build, and when tax day comes, they get that 250s back. it would be a real good way to limit building of stuff and keep skill level upgrading and progression in the economy.
thiers also jehovah buildings. i guess they could just be not for sale and have a 32k daily decay to get rid of them right away, but then thats a loss of money from the economy (but so is the owner dying). maybe just have jehovah sale price set at 1 so jehovah buildings are practicly givin away for free.
would also need a way to balence out the money to stop 1 or 2 people from getting super rich and everybody else going broke and dying or giving up. if the lower wealth people leave, then the rich people will have no income source or nothing to do at all and it will eventually result in an abandoned island.
turn off the mode that means part-constructed buildings are builtthierd need to be a way to stop people from going around and makeing hundreds of building bases
theres a number of building options for having say - 50 wood required to build, and its all required at the point when they first construct it, rather than having it constructed later.
The tax rebate thing sounds a bit complicated to write (server would have to store extra records of who was due for a rebate) and i dont really see the need particularly(specially if using the mode above).
anyway, Mit, stop hijacking planitia's thread :]