Problems on Reina Roja
the internal name of the model is indeed the exodroid2. then again, the seeds you eat in the harvester are actually "cakes". near every element in the game can be renamed: that's the whole benefit of the server software. what it's named in the actual world is the intention. there's a number of charts and a book on the mech's defensive use. we've personally spoken about it previously.
i'm listening to your comments, and considering them, and by no means do i mean to be coming off as cocky. i simply haven't heard a valid argument as to why what this thing i've made is a problem. so far every complaint about the server describes exactly what i intended the server to play like: you just don't like it.
additionally i'd like to address this vague "bugs" thing. by announcing that a server is buggy without actually reporting anything specific to the world owner, it creates an environment of FUD that's then a self-fulfilling sort, defeatist sort of strategy. you discourage the very same new players you desire to get into the server from coming and trying it out.
i realize a lot of the current new kids play biplane, and then come in goin "hey where do i get a car or a plane or somethin?" -- having a long term world so close in proximity to a short term one is a bit tricky. this is all explained in the manuals however, and you should encourage them to consider this.
while the world does move faster with more people, it's not required to have them, and i only want people there who want to be there.
it's lots of people, or time to build. and of course you're always welcome to recruit friends.
the game itself is beta, and therefore i'm limited somewhat to that. while i could stick to just the "tried and true" features, i don't. the worlds i make have always tried to display some of the newest, bleeding edge featuresets that have been created.
in the first two days, we did have a number of tweaks to the economy. this is natural for a world that was developed entirely without testing. not a single person helped test the economy before launching it.
the limited and minor amount of changes that were made are perfectly normal for any world. i don't think we've had a single world that didn't have to make a few adjustments.
i'm very pleased however that things seem to have stabalized. one of the critisisms i hear time and time again about worlds is that just as players are accepting an economy, the island owner goes and interferes to make one or two of the louder players happy, and ruins it for other less vocal ones, who happy to be perfectly content.
this is the paramount reason that there is a massive, massive roadblock between me and changing a dang thing. the island works. it might be much too slow-paced for your tastes, but it's perfectly functional. you can make stuff, it just takes a long time to do it. that's how i wanted it to be. there's no purpose to my changing something that behaves the way it was intended.
honestly i don't consider it an argument, and i'm always sorry when someone doesn't appreciate my vision on an artistic or creative level, i just don't see that it's not doing what i wanted it to.
i'm listening to your comments, and considering them, and by no means do i mean to be coming off as cocky. i simply haven't heard a valid argument as to why what this thing i've made is a problem. so far every complaint about the server describes exactly what i intended the server to play like: you just don't like it.
mechs aren't intended to take out every building in 25 minutes. i think you saw the mechs in the promo screenshot, got a preconception that this was gonna be "MECH BATTLEZONE SPECTAULAH", and it's not. if you wanna blast shinola in mechs, you may prefer the reine server, but as of yet i'm not rewriting mech warriar or whatever. if you've got an idea for a mech based world, feel free to share. maybe someone will build it. reina is what it is.Tell me hedge, hows that mech gonna cross the water? hows it gonna take out every building in 25 mins? impossible, it takes a FULL SCALE amount of PLAYERS to wage war
additionally i'd like to address this vague "bugs" thing. by announcing that a server is buggy without actually reporting anything specific to the world owner, it creates an environment of FUD that's then a self-fulfilling sort, defeatist sort of strategy. you discourage the very same new players you desire to get into the server from coming and trying it out.
i realize a lot of the current new kids play biplane, and then come in goin "hey where do i get a car or a plane or somethin?" -- having a long term world so close in proximity to a short term one is a bit tricky. this is all explained in the manuals however, and you should encourage them to consider this.
while the world does move faster with more people, it's not required to have them, and i only want people there who want to be there.
it's lots of people, or time to build. and of course you're always welcome to recruit friends.
the game itself is beta, and therefore i'm limited somewhat to that. while i could stick to just the "tried and true" features, i don't. the worlds i make have always tried to display some of the newest, bleeding edge featuresets that have been created.
in the first two days, we did have a number of tweaks to the economy. this is natural for a world that was developed entirely without testing. not a single person helped test the economy before launching it.
the limited and minor amount of changes that were made are perfectly normal for any world. i don't think we've had a single world that didn't have to make a few adjustments.
i'm very pleased however that things seem to have stabalized. one of the critisisms i hear time and time again about worlds is that just as players are accepting an economy, the island owner goes and interferes to make one or two of the louder players happy, and ruins it for other less vocal ones, who happy to be perfectly content.
this is the paramount reason that there is a massive, massive roadblock between me and changing a dang thing. the island works. it might be much too slow-paced for your tastes, but it's perfectly functional. you can make stuff, it just takes a long time to do it. that's how i wanted it to be. there's no purpose to my changing something that behaves the way it was intended.
honestly i don't consider it an argument, and i'm always sorry when someone doesn't appreciate my vision on an artistic or creative level, i just don't see that it's not doing what i wanted it to.
Last edited by hedgehog on Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
everytime you guys start talking symantics i pretty much want to delete said messages. it's quite possibly the most sophmoronic [sic] trolling of all time.Malkiah wrote:Minku your in a Fourm, go to any History book, flip to the Roman Chapter, and read about Forum buildings. FORUM: " A place of commerce and or debate."
Last edited by hedgehog on Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think it's the fact that it seems ludicris to make bricks from so much effort, they're bricks....I could go down my local diy store and pick up 30 bricks in 30 minutes....
I suggest just simply re-naming the item - that's sensible, call it ultra-advanced-super-mega-plutonium-metal, or something, and it'll feel more worthwhile, because it feels silly working so hard for bricks, right?
that's the most sensible thing said so far in this thread.
I suggest just simply re-naming the item - that's sensible, call it ultra-advanced-super-mega-plutonium-metal, or something, and it'll feel more worthwhile, because it feels silly working so hard for bricks, right?
that's the most sensible thing said so far in this thread.
etc
A) Yes, every knolagable player, including me, at one point wish we could get into the shiny mech or the high speed jets...the fun part is not knowing too. Ever open your christmas present before the 25th. At first you feel sneaky and clever...then it just sucks and no longer fun.
B) I do find the process to create bricks a little too steap and expencive.
C) Using yelling, angrey analigies, and arguments makes the force of your statement degrade. Vagrant put a realitivly well statement together even though he felt like killing himself, he can hold anger well. Malk...
D) I gotta adimt, atleast for me, the fun of the game comes when you get something new and exiting to use for your work. This is renewed constanly to keep me playing. Be it new vehicles or buildings, i just wanna try em out. This long term economy does not reward the hard workers, rather it rewards whoever is around when the new mech is out. I gotta say, my patientce slowly falls apart when I dont see something new and flashy...especialy when someone is capping my building while im away...
just ma 2 cents
B) I do find the process to create bricks a little too steap and expencive.
C) Using yelling, angrey analigies, and arguments makes the force of your statement degrade. Vagrant put a realitivly well statement together even though he felt like killing himself, he can hold anger well. Malk...
D) I gotta adimt, atleast for me, the fun of the game comes when you get something new and exiting to use for your work. This is renewed constanly to keep me playing. Be it new vehicles or buildings, i just wanna try em out. This long term economy does not reward the hard workers, rather it rewards whoever is around when the new mech is out. I gotta say, my patientce slowly falls apart when I dont see something new and flashy...especialy when someone is capping my building while im away...
just ma 2 cents
Finally someone understands the point I'm making... If I spend 3 days making bricks or whatever so that a building gets made I get nothing more than someone who played less than an hour. And of course if building owners restricted who could buy those goods, it would only serve to screw out the team in the long run. So I have to ask why I should spent several hours of excessive boredom moving goods when I really don't get anything from the act. This game is supposed to be fun, call me crazy, but somehow I don't see where the fun is currently. As you mentioned I can't even look foreward to real combat, not only because it's several months away, but due to the amount of effort required, it is unlikely any team would risk losing a vehicle with random skirmishes. No, it'll be 5 or 6 people at once while the entire opposing team is offline or incapable. From that point, destroy steel and plastic manufacturing, and you cripple the whole team for a good month. Even if ammo takes awhile to make, and buildings take awhile to destroy, either the process of replacing those buildings takes longer than ammo, or there's no point to even making ammo. Why attack when doing so makes little to no effect, why spend days making a building when it can be knocked down in minutes? On other worlds this is less of an issue since both happen slow enough to give people something to work for, and fast enough to keep them interested. There's an excess of one, and a shortage of the other.This long term economy does not reward the hard workers, rather it rewards whoever is around when the new mech is out. I gotta say, my patientce slowly falls apart when I dont see something new and flashy...especialy when someone is capping my building while im away...
As far as the comment about how if you don't like a world, you shouldn't play it... I feel such a remark is small and illfounded here. World owners need input to keep the world interesting, the game itself is dependant on people wanting to come back. The two are related, I'm not going off on some silly rant saying what's wrong and spouting off, I'm making suggestions I think most would appreciate. I personally have a history of being very active at transfering here, so if I'm at wits end here, I can only imagine how some people either don't want to be bothered, or have already lost it (like malk). Clearly just dealing with it isn't going to make anything better. Incase you havn't noticed, player activity has fallen over the last few weeks as Planitia was slated for reset, Gyruss left to stagnate, Sabrada left as a ghost town, Zoric 9 as an idea before it's time. Adding another world of blah will only make the population of active players smaller.
Yes, Zoric and Planitia are both up and running new worlds, and Sabrada has gotten some attention (havn't been back there yet). But those are econ worlds. The market for war or war econ is slim at best. Biplane and Battlezone are either filled with newbies that can't learn because they're getting killed constantly, Iridis is vacant almost constantly, and at last check Reine Blanche was both offline and not in a system where people could be bothered to go to. As I see it, Reina Roja has potential to be great, but it isn't going to happen at the current rate of things. Not asking for everything to be possible at the snap of your fingers, just asking for it to be remotly possible without having to personally commit a few months of my life to getting anywhere. If I wanted to do that, I'd learn HTML or write a book, atleast then I could possibly get something from my efforts. And yes, moving items between buildings falls under "work" at this point, give it a shot for few hours, you'd almost perfer a real job.
Um, isnt the whole part of having a team is sharing? doesn't it matter less if a team member gets something? what are you babbling about?
Like it's been said, if you don't like the island, pretty much tough really, constructive critisim is fine, but now it's gotten...silly, you're critisising the whole planet - so dont play - I'll just go and stock the gens and make wood too, and be one step ahead of everyone else
hedgehog has guts in coming up with something new and trying it out - reina is still kinda a testing island I think - and by ranting about it you're just making the chances of new styles of play like this not being made with the effort it was. When the next new untested world comes out, dont be suprised if you get banned even before you start.
if you have any ideas on increasing the world longetivity in another way, I listen with much interest.....
I agree, by the way, on world input, and that saying "if you dont like it tough" doesn't quite cut it, I agree,...perhaps you need reminding how long this world took to make? how would you feel if all the players then came along and tore it to little bits, lowering it's value like this? I've been there too, not to the extreme, but I know what it's like, and all it does, is make you want to close the island/world off, and give a few mates the password.
Your comments are welcome, im just saying.....there's only so much a world owner can take, trust me, lol
"you're asking to change the world - if you don't like it, tough" fits rather nicely, but the input im sure if helping for the next world perhaps, but not much for this one, except in it's closing.
Like it's been said, if you don't like the island, pretty much tough really, constructive critisim is fine, but now it's gotten...silly, you're critisising the whole planet - so dont play - I'll just go and stock the gens and make wood too, and be one step ahead of everyone else
hedgehog has guts in coming up with something new and trying it out - reina is still kinda a testing island I think - and by ranting about it you're just making the chances of new styles of play like this not being made with the effort it was. When the next new untested world comes out, dont be suprised if you get banned even before you start.
if you have any ideas on increasing the world longetivity in another way, I listen with much interest.....
I agree, by the way, on world input, and that saying "if you dont like it tough" doesn't quite cut it, I agree,...perhaps you need reminding how long this world took to make? how would you feel if all the players then came along and tore it to little bits, lowering it's value like this? I've been there too, not to the extreme, but I know what it's like, and all it does, is make you want to close the island/world off, and give a few mates the password.
Your comments are welcome, im just saying.....there's only so much a world owner can take, trust me, lol
"you're asking to change the world - if you don't like it, tough" fits rather nicely, but the input im sure if helping for the next world perhaps, but not much for this one, except in it's closing.
i agree that just not taking player concerns into account is a problem. if you're not listening to your audience, you deserve to go under.
though i think reina is verrrry different from zion, i think zion had the same problem in this regard: when you can get a steel factory on worldX in a few hours or days, why bother doing it on zion when it takes months?
the answer there largely is prestige.
sadly, reina also sort of points out that the primary element to the game, is indeed, totally fecking boring.
i've never understood econ islands to be honest. why you guys just want to go back and forth trading stuff for 15 hours a day, get a bunch of cars, have the whole place fever pitched with monopoly, get reset, only to do the whole thing all over again is beyond me. it's why i never play econ. there's no point in hanging around if it's all getting reset cause the richest 1% of power players got bored too quick.
to be honest, we have a very limited number of "fun" items in the game by which to motivate players to do the boring stuff. most of which (tune ups, diving suits, etc) we only got a few months ago: per a feature request i'd made in the hopes of alleviating some of the boredom of transfering stuff. ironically, we have more items than the 64 building set can really hope to hold, but the overwhelming majority of them are food based. cakes. pies. broccoli. zzzzz.
what i was hoping... and what everyone seems to have completely drawn a line in the sand on and refuses to do, is that the power players would quit trying to control every last lil aspect of the thing. if you go out, recruit new players, bring them in, and -- don't teach them the entire 15 step lumber making transfer -- teach them how to do one trade, and one trade only. keep doing it until you get enough players that "stick". as you do well and are able to unlock new items, they share in that benefit, even if they haven't been playing as long, and that excites them into the game.
reina is about out-of-game communication, coordination, strategy, promotion, and a decent amount of in-game work. it's putting game promotion and advocacy into your hands a bit.
clearly that's not gonna happen, and i've no problem with doing the promo portion of it on my own, but i'd like to...er.. finish the war isle first so the ones who don't like the econ have that
why iridis is empty all the time i've no clue. it seems like quite a fun planet.
a quick list of rules i've made regarding reina since day 1:
a] after any initial bug tweaks, it would never change. so no one gets put out or pansy that they put a lot of work into something that was ruined by the island owner. there's a lot of threads regarding people pansy about stuff like this.
b] it would never reset. or at least, not for a year. that's the second biggest complaint about any econ island. the rich guys get bored and want a reset, the poor kids who just get somwhere with the island are pansy that it got reset.
c] it would take quite some time to complete. i don't like spending 6 months on texturing so you guys can be bored of the stuff in a weekend. and what's the point of resetting the world then? it's shinola you already saw. who cares? i'm not the sort of world owner that ever wants to just take what i already had, tweak it a lil, and pass that off as my next world. it's no fun for any of us.
if you guys truely think bricks are way too hard to make (and more than likely steel in turn), then i'll up the production a bit and hope that quicker-to-war will lower the boredom that will... will occur when you guys eat through the bdat in a few hours.
the other key element that i think we should remember is i'm not intending reina to be some "most popular isle ever for the whole year all the time".
if reina was dead for literally 4 months straight and some newbie kid came on, puttered about for awhile and had enough fun makin trades or buying up jehowned buildings to continue on with the game, i'd be psyched.
one of my intentions is to flood the world with buildings however, and ultimately i expect a lot of them to jehown, so i'll consult my bdat, do a bit of thinking, and shortly i'll put to a vote how much capacity should be increased.
i'll also point out that i'm pretty much souly doing this due to izaboo's understanding what i'm trying to do, and expressing a level headed and well-meaning interest in changing the speed a bit. vagrants well writtened and even-tempered post has also contributed to it. so if there's someone that disagrees with the decision to potentially speed it up, chime in, blame them, etc
malk's about 30 seconds away from a ban though. specially if he's keeps rambling on and turning away newbs the way he is now.
that's pretty much the entire philosophy behind reina. you guys can go on any other island and drive the exact same models in ten minutes. in many ways, i think this dillutes an econ like reina since it's almost like every other world is having a cheat code in comparison.A) Yes, every knolagable player, including me, at one point wish we could get into the shiny mech or the high speed jets...the fun part is not knowing too. Ever open your christmas present before the 25th. At first you feel sneaky and clever...then it just sucks and no longer fun.
though i think reina is verrrry different from zion, i think zion had the same problem in this regard: when you can get a steel factory on worldX in a few hours or days, why bother doing it on zion when it takes months?
the answer there largely is prestige.
sadly, reina also sort of points out that the primary element to the game, is indeed, totally fecking boring.
i've never understood econ islands to be honest. why you guys just want to go back and forth trading stuff for 15 hours a day, get a bunch of cars, have the whole place fever pitched with monopoly, get reset, only to do the whole thing all over again is beyond me. it's why i never play econ. there's no point in hanging around if it's all getting reset cause the richest 1% of power players got bored too quick.
to be honest, we have a very limited number of "fun" items in the game by which to motivate players to do the boring stuff. most of which (tune ups, diving suits, etc) we only got a few months ago: per a feature request i'd made in the hopes of alleviating some of the boredom of transfering stuff. ironically, we have more items than the 64 building set can really hope to hold, but the overwhelming majority of them are food based. cakes. pies. broccoli. zzzzz.
what i was hoping... and what everyone seems to have completely drawn a line in the sand on and refuses to do, is that the power players would quit trying to control every last lil aspect of the thing. if you go out, recruit new players, bring them in, and -- don't teach them the entire 15 step lumber making transfer -- teach them how to do one trade, and one trade only. keep doing it until you get enough players that "stick". as you do well and are able to unlock new items, they share in that benefit, even if they haven't been playing as long, and that excites them into the game.
reina is about out-of-game communication, coordination, strategy, promotion, and a decent amount of in-game work. it's putting game promotion and advocacy into your hands a bit.
clearly that's not gonna happen, and i've no problem with doing the promo portion of it on my own, but i'd like to...er.. finish the war isle first so the ones who don't like the econ have that
why iridis is empty all the time i've no clue. it seems like quite a fun planet.
a quick list of rules i've made regarding reina since day 1:
a] after any initial bug tweaks, it would never change. so no one gets put out or pansy that they put a lot of work into something that was ruined by the island owner. there's a lot of threads regarding people pansy about stuff like this.
b] it would never reset. or at least, not for a year. that's the second biggest complaint about any econ island. the rich guys get bored and want a reset, the poor kids who just get somwhere with the island are pansy that it got reset.
c] it would take quite some time to complete. i don't like spending 6 months on texturing so you guys can be bored of the stuff in a weekend. and what's the point of resetting the world then? it's shinola you already saw. who cares? i'm not the sort of world owner that ever wants to just take what i already had, tweak it a lil, and pass that off as my next world. it's no fun for any of us.
if you guys truely think bricks are way too hard to make (and more than likely steel in turn), then i'll up the production a bit and hope that quicker-to-war will lower the boredom that will... will occur when you guys eat through the bdat in a few hours.
the other key element that i think we should remember is i'm not intending reina to be some "most popular isle ever for the whole year all the time".
if reina was dead for literally 4 months straight and some newbie kid came on, puttered about for awhile and had enough fun makin trades or buying up jehowned buildings to continue on with the game, i'd be psyched.
one of my intentions is to flood the world with buildings however, and ultimately i expect a lot of them to jehown, so i'll consult my bdat, do a bit of thinking, and shortly i'll put to a vote how much capacity should be increased.
i'll also point out that i'm pretty much souly doing this due to izaboo's understanding what i'm trying to do, and expressing a level headed and well-meaning interest in changing the speed a bit. vagrants well writtened and even-tempered post has also contributed to it. so if there's someone that disagrees with the decision to potentially speed it up, chime in, blame them, etc
malk's about 30 seconds away from a ban though. specially if he's keeps rambling on and turning away newbs the way he is now.
right. screw the vote. after talking with iz and a few, i've decided to make all mats pretty reasonably easy to get.
food, drink, bp and the like will still be a pain in the ass, but the number of mats it makes will cause aquiring items to be not much of a problem.
if you guys tear through the thing in a week and don't come back ever again, that's your frigging problem. it'll be there for a year, even if it's a ghost town. this is my econ offering. it's the absolute last one. i don't even like econ. i've always thought the game should get off econ. more racing and shootin stuff i say.
if you liked it the way it was and feel you got short changed here, sorry. should've spoken up.
details to follow.
food, drink, bp and the like will still be a pain in the ass, but the number of mats it makes will cause aquiring items to be not much of a problem.
if you guys tear through the thing in a week and don't come back ever again, that's your frigging problem. it'll be there for a year, even if it's a ghost town. this is my econ offering. it's the absolute last one. i don't even like econ. i've always thought the game should get off econ. more racing and shootin stuff i say.
if you liked it the way it was and feel you got short changed here, sorry. should've spoken up.
details to follow.