Alright, this is one of those "can you make things easier" threads to some extent, but with very good reason. The main problem with the world is that it can take several days of constant effort (months at current activity) in order to make even 1 building requiring bricks, and that currently both plastics and steel are near impossible to all teams. This isn't simply because it takes 2-3 hours of constant transfering (chem to coolant, coolant and cans to energy, energy to power, power and bits to rocks, rocks and water to bricks nonstop) to make even 20 bricks (probably longer for some teams), but because there are few that would even attempt that given what most buildings require. At that rate, it would take roughly 38 hours of constant effort just to make 300 bricks, probably closer to 50 hours given that people would have to eat and drink within the game. But since the average person would only spend 1 hour online just moving materials, that can easily equate to weeks or months depending on how long they could remain sane.
Compared to the rate that weapons can be made to destroy that building... There's an obvious inbalance no matter how durable the structure. Making ammo take an exausting amount of time to make would only serve to make the underlying problem more obvious. The point is that people don't typically transfer things when they don't see any real benefit to doing so. Money is there simply to allow goods to be transfered between buildings, so unlike econ worlds doesn't encourage people to participate. Promise of things to come is about all there is, and at that point I think most would agree that it just isn't happening. And by the time one team is able to damage buildings, there just isn't a point for others to carry on. An entire base could be reduced to day 1 conditions far faster than it took to make. Again, making ammo produce at a rate of even 1 every 5 days would only serve to emphasize the futility of being second or last to have the capability, and larger teams would simply make more buildings that produce ammo.
I realize that you intended this world to take a good long time for anything to happen, but given the aparent lack of effort being made, I can only wonder if anyone else appreciates that. People play to have fun, not to spend several days running between buildings for that eventual 5 seconds of entertainment. No, at this point it almost makes sense to forget about buildings, and just run into an enemy base with uniform flinging bombs for fun. Sure, you could end up dying, but at only about 30-40 mins cost, compared to hours of shifting goods. Yes, it's a team world, but from what I've seen, most people include an "I" somewhere within that word. Be it bickering between team members about how to use a specific resource, to doing next to nothing while others toil endlessly to make your building.
The fact that you're limited to 2 building types, and cannot salvage un-needed ones only makes this more obvious. So if you make an extra lumbermill because someone on your team let the investmet run out, or whatever, your team is stuck with those wasted resources, and a building which ultimately serves no purpose once the other building owner gets his act together. More to the point, you're now stuck with a building of that type until you pawn it off on a team mate, meaning that if you have any intentions of storing goods in the future, you aren't building anything else. Regardless, someone down the line is stuck with that building and will eventually run into a problem.
The building problem could be made easier if peope were allowed to demolish buildings, but since there are those that would actually sit and try to take a building simply for the purpose of destroying it, this just isn't happening with the current software. Which begs the question of why building capture is even allowed at this point. As best I can tell, there is no real benificial reason to having this enabled at this time. There are no vehicles beyond uniforms, there are no defenses, and most people are either doing the whole "treadmill" thing, or are just too bored to even considder wasting the time in attacking. And even if they did think about it, they'd be doing it for entertainment more than an attempt to take anything. Given the current situation, it makes more sense to remove it for now than it does to keep it around for someone to eventually abuse. Do we really want a whole team going "so and so captured the only building that makes power, then logged out, so now we can't make lumber to replace the building."
Long story short, this whole "make everything take so damn long" thing you're trying to do will only continue to cause you further headache once one team decides to knock out necessary buildings and set other teams back months. At this point, you could cripple most teams for days by knocking out one or two weak buildings. If people think it's hell making bricks when people aren't attacking, let them see how it is when those bricks are needed NOW to replace an ore mine on which defenses, vehicles, and other things are dependant while the team continues to destroy buildings. Simply put, not pretty.
I'm just trying to make this world more than endless hours of transfering goods with no real gain. If I wanted to do that, I could sit on biplane moving ore for steel, and steel for money which just disappears after 2000s. And I've been one of the more diligent people at transfering things. Something which will probably turn to disgust as I see it get destroyed by someone who spent a total of 45 minutes on world while their team did all the work. Even in best case, someone else on my team gets entertainment for something they couldn't be bothered to make happen.
*on a side note* Could you see it possible to removing ornamental construction until there is a way to get rid of those buildings. Landscaping is also equally useless since you cannot make walls or roads within or outside a town. Build defense currently has no building associated with it, but can see how this is being worked on. Having a 3 skill limit isn't the problem since money is available and you can forget one. It's the whole not knowing what's useless and what isn't that is. Making "flowers" look like a turret when you have to search for a "defense building skill" obviously didn't help the situation :).
Problems on Reina Roja
I have to hand it to you Vagrant, hedge's thought up idea of making the game last 1 year is really F*CKING with peoples SANITY, everytime i log on to Roja, all i think about is slicing my throat and letting my blood spill on the keyboard, finally someone came out of the dark and into the light, and hedge if you read this,. there are many more in the dark, like i said, im not the only one bitching, so stop looking at me. If you want your year hedge is under your nose, this is how it works:
"HaHa, i captured your buildings!" then they duel "You lose, and i recapped my building back" another person comes along captures the building again, then the duel again, REPEAT, REPEAT, OVER AND OVER AND OVER, OK!!!!!!!!! thats how WAR works, THERE IS YOUR 1 YEAR HEDGE, now get a clue and CHANGE THE BDAT B4 ROJA MAKES EVERYONE GO F*CKING INSANE!!!!!!! that is all, thank you.
"HaHa, i captured your buildings!" then they duel "You lose, and i recapped my building back" another person comes along captures the building again, then the duel again, REPEAT, REPEAT, OVER AND OVER AND OVER, OK!!!!!!!!! thats how WAR works, THERE IS YOUR 1 YEAR HEDGE, now get a clue and CHANGE THE BDAT B4 ROJA MAKES EVERYONE GO F*CKING INSANE!!!!!!! that is all, thank you.
i love reina.. just not enough people log on or they stay off for too long... if they're were more people as employees the brick route = very much easier... also its supposed to last for a year.... it supposed to take forever to make a vehicle.
and to destroy a building? it may take a while to kill but the one vehicle [per team] that can bloody destroy a building is not expected for months... hedge planned the world pretty well if u ask me.
and to destroy a building? it may take a while to kill but the one vehicle [per team] that can bloody destroy a building is not expected for months... hedge planned the world pretty well if u ask me.
Yes, having more people would certainly help the process along, but incase you havn't noticed, there seem to be more people leaving than there are joining. As far as Reina Roja goes, each team currently has 1-4 moderately active people transferring goods, 2-3 inactive people who just own buildings, and 4-7 people who either can't be bothered to log in every 4 days, or don't even know how to play. Since I can't read access logs, this can only be a guess based on what I have seen so far. Also since I can't read those logs, I don't know just how many different people (excluding ops) actually log in within a 4 day period, but feel safe to assume that at max we have at most 40 people in the community... Including the 6-12 new people who show up, learn how to play, but quit within the week. Leaving at best around 30 people that you might actually see from one week to the next, of those, atleast half are inactive at this point,,, Which leaves you with a total of about 15 people who are active, and know what they're doing. Divide that between 3 teams on a world like reina roja, and that's roughly where we're at currently, 5 active people per team. Unfortunately it looks like the world is setup for something closer to 20-30 people per team...
Not saying that it isn't setup great for a large community, just pointing out how it totally sucks with a small community, and short of there being a handful of fun worlds keeping new players playing, that's what we'll always have, a small community. Having these excessivly complicated worlds that demand a large player base only makes the problem more obvious. Zar said it himself "nearly every running island would be better if it had more people on at more times doing stuff." But forgot to mention that it is like that because of how world owners set their world that more people are needed.
Not saying that it isn't setup great for a large community, just pointing out how it totally sucks with a small community, and short of there being a handful of fun worlds keeping new players playing, that's what we'll always have, a small community. Having these excessivly complicated worlds that demand a large player base only makes the problem more obvious. Zar said it himself "nearly every running island would be better if it had more people on at more times doing stuff." But forgot to mention that it is like that because of how world owners set their world that more people are needed.
so far i've heard a few main points in this thread:
a] it takes too long to make anything.
b] it's almost more worthwhile to just start goin around shooting grenades and acting silly.
c] we need more players
my assesment? mission accomplished.
90% of mmorpgs have serious economic problems in terms of keeping their powerplayers roped in. i'm quite thrilled that the people playing 15+ hours a day haven't eaten through the whole planet yet.
most of these posts seem to be saying "i know, i know, it's supposed to last a year....but IT'S TAKING SO LONGGGG!"...which... again, is the point :]
if i can get a v7 on some world after 30 mins of work, i guess that's cool and all, but i think it's far more special and illustrative of bragging rights when it took you a month. suddenly driving that thing around is an amazing symbol of dedication. there's only so many cool items to get in the game. i'm just trying to add some value back into owning 'em.
my favorite island, i think i went three weeks before even getting a marginally faster vehicle.
it also just doesn't satisfy me to be skinning and designing these things for months if they're "beatable" in 15 minutes. playing a world should at least take as long as it did to develop it as far as i'm concerned.
there's never been a doubt in my mind this would frusterate most of the power users who're accustomed to seeing very rapid results. additionally i've always assumed roja would have it's times of crowded popularity, and times when things are going a bit slower. the server's up for a year: i'm not in any rush or desire to have it be dead-packed with players every one of those 365 days.
what you expect from other worlds isn't applicable on roja. log on for 15 minutes. do a few transfers, go throw grenades at the other guy, go off to some other island and play around.
if you really want to stay on for an entire day doing transfers, no one's stopping you, and i'm sure your team is psyched for the effort, but .no one's asking you to do that. it's not the point. you don't need to do that.
additionally, you don't need to do the entire transfer chain from chemical B to Lumber on your own. it was intended that the transfer chain in roja is more complex than on other islands, so that people wouldn't do that. concentrate on owning your lil store and doing transfers just to and from that. let the guy you sell up to worry about his transfers.
as far as buildings being destroyed, it's an impossibly hard task. only attack vehicles can destroy buildings. there's only three in the game, they're impossibly hard to get, and getting ammo for them is even more work. if a player actually does enough random work over the course of say, six months, and finally gets that tank or bomber, they deserve to blow up some building in my mind.
i imagine the frusterating thing for the powerplayers is that by now, you guys generally have your dominance set. though here, any newbie can start up a competitive low-level building, and make a ton of money doing it. the playing field is leveled in that first-to-build aren't necessarially the ones that'll stay the richest if they aren't putting in a bit of work now and then. i hate islands where some rich bastard just logs in once every few days to keep his buildings from going for sale, but otherwise just sits on a huge pile of cash cause he got to the island before me. on most of our traditional economy worlds, i can't compete with that guy. ever. there's no point in even trying.
lastly, the entire world is supposed to inspire the players to promote the game. 99% of the "problem" that you're suggesting the timeframe/workload creates, is solved with more players.
telling friends, reminding them to log back in regularly, etc, is what i'd prefer happened, rather than just doubling your workload for no real reason.
frankly i think people are going "insane" only because they haven't "won" yet.
i could even leave it on past a year if there's still new things to build.
lastly, the more organized your family is, the more fun and smoother it's going to be when you finally get that first batch of bricks a week or two later. assign transfer tasks. volunteer to do a particular route for 10 or 15 minutes a day.
i could make it easier, but what would that accomplish other than you guys just having all the cool stuff faster and with less effort? that doesn't seem that fun to me, i dunno.
a] it takes too long to make anything.
b] it's almost more worthwhile to just start goin around shooting grenades and acting silly.
c] we need more players
my assesment? mission accomplished.
90% of mmorpgs have serious economic problems in terms of keeping their powerplayers roped in. i'm quite thrilled that the people playing 15+ hours a day haven't eaten through the whole planet yet.
most of these posts seem to be saying "i know, i know, it's supposed to last a year....but IT'S TAKING SO LONGGGG!"...which... again, is the point :]
if i can get a v7 on some world after 30 mins of work, i guess that's cool and all, but i think it's far more special and illustrative of bragging rights when it took you a month. suddenly driving that thing around is an amazing symbol of dedication. there's only so many cool items to get in the game. i'm just trying to add some value back into owning 'em.
my favorite island, i think i went three weeks before even getting a marginally faster vehicle.
it also just doesn't satisfy me to be skinning and designing these things for months if they're "beatable" in 15 minutes. playing a world should at least take as long as it did to develop it as far as i'm concerned.
there's never been a doubt in my mind this would frusterate most of the power users who're accustomed to seeing very rapid results. additionally i've always assumed roja would have it's times of crowded popularity, and times when things are going a bit slower. the server's up for a year: i'm not in any rush or desire to have it be dead-packed with players every one of those 365 days.
what you expect from other worlds isn't applicable on roja. log on for 15 minutes. do a few transfers, go throw grenades at the other guy, go off to some other island and play around.
if you really want to stay on for an entire day doing transfers, no one's stopping you, and i'm sure your team is psyched for the effort, but .no one's asking you to do that. it's not the point. you don't need to do that.
additionally, you don't need to do the entire transfer chain from chemical B to Lumber on your own. it was intended that the transfer chain in roja is more complex than on other islands, so that people wouldn't do that. concentrate on owning your lil store and doing transfers just to and from that. let the guy you sell up to worry about his transfers.
as far as buildings being destroyed, it's an impossibly hard task. only attack vehicles can destroy buildings. there's only three in the game, they're impossibly hard to get, and getting ammo for them is even more work. if a player actually does enough random work over the course of say, six months, and finally gets that tank or bomber, they deserve to blow up some building in my mind.
i imagine the frusterating thing for the powerplayers is that by now, you guys generally have your dominance set. though here, any newbie can start up a competitive low-level building, and make a ton of money doing it. the playing field is leveled in that first-to-build aren't necessarially the ones that'll stay the richest if they aren't putting in a bit of work now and then. i hate islands where some rich bastard just logs in once every few days to keep his buildings from going for sale, but otherwise just sits on a huge pile of cash cause he got to the island before me. on most of our traditional economy worlds, i can't compete with that guy. ever. there's no point in even trying.
lastly, the entire world is supposed to inspire the players to promote the game. 99% of the "problem" that you're suggesting the timeframe/workload creates, is solved with more players.
telling friends, reminding them to log back in regularly, etc, is what i'd prefer happened, rather than just doubling your workload for no real reason.
frankly i think people are going "insane" only because they haven't "won" yet.
i could even leave it on past a year if there's still new things to build.
lastly, the more organized your family is, the more fun and smoother it's going to be when you finally get that first batch of bricks a week or two later. assign transfer tasks. volunteer to do a particular route for 10 or 15 minutes a day.
i could make it easier, but what would that accomplish other than you guys just having all the cool stuff faster and with less effort? that doesn't seem that fun to me, i dunno.
Ok Device, this is what someone once said in contrast about soemthing.DeVice wrote:Ever heard the sentence "Not happy ? go see if that's better elsewhere", Malk ?
what i mean is, i don't think your tone will help hedge considering your request a good one.
"If your hungry and you POLITELY" knock on your neighbors door and ask, yet get no reply, you do this for a week or two, eventually it turns into months, then you get a little more angry, and you start to knock harder on the door, then more months go by, and you start banging on the door, eventually your to the point of where you come through that door your coming through hand in all, shooting and killing everything from being so fed up, yet when you started off POLITELY and got no responce or denied." I started this way with hedge, im at my wits end with the guy.
hedge this isnt a MMORPG, or an MMORTS, or an MMOFPS, its a MMO pure formed into creativety and imagination for the pure fun of it all, Reina Roja has its MAIN players stringed up with their own nuises, im rdy to hang myself, go ahead do a query on m and youll see my game time, persoanlly none of it has payed off as these certain boundries you have fathomed have yet again screwed me, i explained this earlier to you, and no i was not bitching yet simpy setting a point, remember a game is for enjoyment and not for pure "IT MUST BE A YEAR" if plp have a car or a gun, so what it has no terminal value in my eyes, so what if someone has a mech, whats he gonna do, blow everything to hell? Tell me hedge, hows that mech gonna cross the water? hows it gonna take out every building in 25 mins? impossible, it takes a FULL SCALE amount of PLAYERS to wage war, you need to fathom your boundries based upon that, and not limits and constant actions for no benefactorial value. Yes this is Malkiah talking calmly, yes it is possible, but I cant let plp dog up on me and expect me to let them get away with it, hense the reason why i blow up so easily, not a temper proble, its a defensive problem i have, real life and in games, but anyways back to the point, hedge you need to stop thinking about your in the good here, what vagrant said is TRUE value, the game is all based upon hard work, and the server running for 1 year, as what i see, vagrant is right, the current software state cannot support this type of develoment, if your gonna design a war game with economy aspects you got the economy down, thats due to the software being based around it, the war part is still all tempermental, needs more thought and abilities implimented.hedgehog wrote:so far i've heard a few main points in this thread:
a] it takes too long to make anything.
b] it's almost more worthwhile to just start goin around shooting grenades and acting silly.
c] we need more players
my assesment? mission accomplished.
90% of mmorpgs have serious economic problems in terms of keeping their powerplayers roped in. i'm quite thrilled that the people playing 15+ hours a day haven't eaten through the whole planet yet.
most of these posts seem to be saying "i know, i know, it's supposed to last a year....but IT'S TAKING SO LONGGGG!"...which... again, is the point :]
if i can get a v7 on some world after 30 mins of work, i guess that's cool and all, but i think it's far more special and illustrative of bragging rights when it took you a month. suddenly driving that thing around is an amazing symbol of dedication. there's only so many cool items to get in the game. i'm just trying to add some value back into owning 'em.
my favorite island, i think i went three weeks before even getting a marginally faster vehicle.
it also just doesn't satisfy me to be skinning and designing these things for months if they're "beatable" in 15 minutes. playing a world should at least take as long as it did to develop it as far as i'm concerned.
there's never been a doubt in my mind this would frusterate most of the power users who're accustomed to seeing very rapid results. additionally i've always assumed roja would have it's times of crowded popularity, and times when things are going a bit slower. the server's up for a year: i'm not in any rush or desire to have it be dead-packed with players every one of those 365 days.
what you expect from other worlds isn't applicable on roja. log on for 15 minutes. do a few transfers, go throw grenades at the other guy, go off to some other island and play around.
if you really want to stay on for an entire day doing transfers, no one's stopping you, and i'm sure your team is psyched for the effort, but .no one's asking you to do that. it's not the point. you don't need to do that.
additionally, you don't need to do the entire transfer chain from chemical B to Lumber on your own. it was intended that the transfer chain in roja is more complex than on other islands, so that people wouldn't do that. concentrate on owning your lil store and doing transfers just to and from that. let the guy you sell up to worry about his transfers.
as far as buildings being destroyed, it's an impossibly hard task. only attack vehicles can destroy buildings. there's only three in the game, they're impossibly hard to get, and getting ammo for them is even more work. if a player actually does enough random work over the course of say, six months, and finally gets that tank or bomber, they deserve to blow up some building in my mind.
i imagine the frusterating thing for the powerplayers is that by now, you guys generally have your dominance set. though here, any newbie can start up a competitive low-level building, and make a ton of money doing it. the playing field is leveled in that first-to-build aren't necessarially the ones that'll stay the richest if they aren't putting in a bit of work now and then. i hate islands where some rich bastard just logs in once every few days to keep his buildings from going for sale, but otherwise just sits on a huge pile of cash cause he got to the island before me. on most of our traditional economy worlds, i can't compete with that guy. ever. there's no point in even trying.
lastly, the entire world is supposed to inspire the players to promote the game. 99% of the "problem" that you're suggesting the timeframe/workload creates, is solved with more players.
telling friends, reminding them to log back in regularly, etc, is what i'd prefer happened, rather than just doubling your workload for no real reason.
frankly i think people are going "insane" only because they haven't "won" yet.
i could even leave it on past a year if there's still new things to build.
lastly, the more organized your family is, the more fun and smoother it's going to be when you finally get that first batch of bricks a week or two later. assign transfer tasks. volunteer to do a particular route for 10 or 15 minutes a day.
i could make it easier, but what would that accomplish other than you guys just having all the cool stuff faster and with less effort? that doesn't seem that fun to me, i dunno.
why, after a year, would the person go nuts and kill people over not getting thier neighbors food? it was the neighbors food and his choice what to do with it. if somebody asked thier neighbor for food politly and never got any reply or got denied, after several attempts, why woulden't they just accept that the person diden't want to give them food instead of constantly asking for it and driving them nuts?
thats like giving a 2 year old whatever they want, whenever they want and never denying them anything, eventually making them a spoiled little brat that throws tantrums and goes nuts later when they can't get what they want. sure they asked for it nicely, but that doesen't mean its gonna happen or thier gonna get what the ywant.
in otherwords, its hedges island and thus his to do what he desires with. if he wanted it to be faster then he would have made it faster, if not fromthe start, then when askd the first time. stop asking for it to be faster and accept it how he wants it
thats like giving a 2 year old whatever they want, whenever they want and never denying them anything, eventually making them a spoiled little brat that throws tantrums and goes nuts later when they can't get what they want. sure they asked for it nicely, but that doesen't mean its gonna happen or thier gonna get what the ywant.
in otherwords, its hedges island and thus his to do what he desires with. if he wanted it to be faster then he would have made it faster, if not fromthe start, then when askd the first time. stop asking for it to be faster and accept it how he wants it
the few bugs there are, are not nesscarily hedge's doing but a client or server error.
also if u read the pilot guide the mech is called a "Defence Mech"
also, u were away for 3 days.
and an RPG doesn't nesscarily have to have lvling up and an rts doesn't nesscarily have to have buildings traning units e.t.c
so reina is mmorts and mmorpg... as are all of the worlds...
also if u read the pilot guide the mech is called a "Defence Mech"
also, u were away for 3 days.
and an RPG doesn't nesscarily have to have lvling up and an rts doesn't nesscarily have to have buildings traning units e.t.c
so reina is mmorts and mmorpg... as are all of the worlds...
First off seer, go look for more information i made no such direct remarks to anything i said about a mech, or an rpg or bugs for that matter i did not even try to point them out, i simply stated there WERE some as in a fabric of existence, an RPG is what it is, a ROLE PLAYING GAME, ROLE PLAYING does not need lvling up, your right, and no i do not need to refer to a hedge's Defensive Mech and if you wanna get cocky about it shrimp, its an Exo-Droid or soemthing, not "Defensive Mech" as you fathomed.theseer wrote:the few bugs there are, are not nesscarily hedge's doing but a client or server error.
also if u read the pilot guide the mech is called a "Defence Mech"
also, u were away for 3 days.
and an RPG doesn't nesscarily have to have lvling up and an rts doesn't nesscarily have to have buildings traning units e.t.c
so reina is mmorts and mmorpg... as are all of the worlds...
